917: Colleges in Crisis | Why Students Are Leaving Elite Universities

Unknown Speaker  0:00  
Music. Instead of

Brian Nichols  0:15  
focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to the Brian Nichols show. Well, hey there, folks. Brian Nichols here on another fun film episode of The Brian Nichols Show. Today, we're jumping right into things from our lovely cardio miracle studios, and we're discussing all things craziness in college. Specifically, we're going to be talking about a lot of college students reaction, and today, by the way, elephant in the room, we are recording on October 7. So yes, a lot of, I would say, more progressive leaning college students and their reaction to the 10 seven massacre that took place over in Israel, at the behest of Hamas and all the other wonderful, you know, terrorist organizations over there, they seem to get along so so well, and unfortunately, a lot of folks here in the continental US of A really have no understanding that When they are aligning themselves, quite literally, with terrorist organizations, that they are the folks that would be in those terrorist organizations sites, were they in the same location. So there seems to be a disconnect. And I don't know, is it that I'm an old fuddy duddy? I just don't know what's going on on campus anymore. It might be so to discuss, oh, what is, in fact, happening on campus, and how the heck we got here. Joining us from campus reform is the editor and chief, Editor in Chief, get it right. Nichols. Zachary Marshall, welcome here to the Brian Nichols, show how you doing good. Great

Zachary Marschall  1:50  
to be here.

Brian Nichols  1:51  
Great to have you on Zachary, looking forward to discussing all things. Yes, Insanity on college campuses. I'm about a decade removed from my tenure when I was on a college campus. No, it has been a decade. Ah, getting old there. Zachary, definitely feeling it when I wake up all those old football injuries, man is come on, come out of the woodwork here. But let's talk about what's happening on campus today. But before we do that, Zachary, introduce yourself here to the Brian Nichols show audience. And what's your role as editor in chief over at Campus reform look like what are you doing

Zachary Marschall  2:21  
over there? Yeah. So I'm editor in chief of leadership institutes campus reform. My team publishes reports on leftist bias and abuse in higher education daily on our website, campusreform.org We cover a range of topics, but for the last year, the story coming of higher higher education, and the national story has been campus anti semitism. This is something we've been signing the alarm on for years, and we've been reporting on since we were founded in 2009 but it wasn't until we saw the swell of support for Hamas terrace last year that Americans woke up to what has been brewing on college campuses this whole time. You said, 2009

Brian Nichols  3:03  
this, this kind of all started this, this anti semitism dog whistle on these college campuses. Give us some of the historical context there. Zachary, what are some of the things you've been seeing on campus here for well over a decade and a half at this

Zachary Marschall  3:16  
point? Yeah. So if we want to look at you know why we have professors, especially Columbia University and other places, supporting students and helping them launch activist rallies and demonstrations on campus against Israel, against Western values, we really have to go back about 50 years to understand that that is when higher education really took a deep Turn and then went away from what we traditionally understand, uh, learning to be. And it went into like this, post modern critique, and then went into anything that criticizes the West, or is anti American is somehow now a mark of sophistication. So for about 40 or 50 years, we had a new wave of professors teach this and train the next generation of TAS of students and the next generation of professors. And this was all happening under the radar, because the old guard of professors was slowly retiring over this period, and we didn't reach a real critical mass point until about 1015, years ago, when all of a sudden there was no one left but these radical leftists, and they have been the ones who have control the hiring and firing and promotion committees. They're the ones that decide what counts as peer reviewed publication, what counts as good dissertation. And we've gotten collectively have become this echo chamber at higher ed where anything that goes against Western values, and Israel is a symbol of that, in their opinion, is something a to be torn down and B, if you tout you're going to get a good job in academia. And that is the bulwark people on campus who are pro Israel, who are Jewish or who are just playing patriotic or up against every day,

Brian Nichols  4:56  
yeah, well, and it used to be, right? I remember back. And I was in college, we would be like, well, let's be real, folks. The ultimate slap in the face of reality for these goof balls is going to be when they go out into the real life, into the real world and they realize that this, this insanity that they're bringing into the classroom or onto campus, doesn't fly in outside of academia. It doesn't fly when you go into the business environment, doesn't fly when you go into your local communities. And yet, Zachary, this is where I get a little nervous. It seems to, in some areas, start to be flying right now, there definitely has been some pushback. Specifically, you look at the DEI practices and a lot of these larger corporations out there, Robbie starduck is going across the country, making companies like John Deere, tactic supply, tactic Tractor Supply, I can say it, as well as Toyota and a bunch of other organizations start to re evaluate, or outright scrap their dei practices. But for you mentioned the time frame, about that decade, decade and a half time period, the DEI mentality really just, I mean, pedal to the metal with zero, well, maybe a little bit, but almost zero pushback. And a lot of that was due to folks being afraid of being called a bigot, being called racist or intolerant, right like these are all the the attacks that our friends on the left will will toss at anybody who questions the narrative ZACHARY And I guess we look at where we are today, we've seen some pushback, right? Like it looks like some folks in in real world are starting to stand up and fight back. But is it enough, like is it is the the pendulum swinging back far enough that it's going to maybe help change the way campuses are looking at and I'm just going to say the DEI perspectives within the confines of their their college campus. Are we going to see a change? Are we seeing a change? You're seeing a lot more than me. You tell me, what do you see? Yeah,

Zachary Marschall  6:55  
I think we are going to see a change, but I think this is a very gradual process, so we have to think in terms of years. And I've been saying now for a while that I think this is going to be a end of the decade result. So I'm not expecting anything right now, but I think in you know, about 10 years, or five to 10 years or so, we're going to see real change. And there have been a couple positive steps happening this year that indicate that one the rollback of Dei, as you mentioned, dei is the complex of programming and ideology on campuses that facilitates a lot of this vitriolic and divisiveness happening in higher ed. Anti semitism being one of those things, and we're seeing now, employers reject that. In addition to companies you mentioned, we've also seen Google say absolutely. Now we're not going to handle it. We're not going to tell you the end of your protests. Now, law firms are now screening applicants for their participation anti semitic rallies, and about a third of employers now are screening for whether or not you participated in anti semitic activity on campus in job interviews. This is positive change in the private sector within higher ed. I think the best hope we've seen all year is Jonathan Levin. He is the new president of Stanford University. He just gave his inaugural speech about two or so weeks ago, and he said that higher education is not about activism, it is about higher learning. That one passage is a complete rejection of the last 50 years that I just described, which we have never heard before. And as he said, that many universities are now implementing institutional neutrality policies which say that the universities will not take positions on issues that do not affect them directly.

Brian Nichols  8:45  
Well, I gotta pause you really quick, Zachary, because that's huge. Because back not even a few months ago, we had Phil Magnus here on the show, and Phil Magnus was talking about how a lot of institutions of higher education, they would actually not only brag about the discrepancy of progressive versus conservative teachers on their campus, professors on their campus, but it became almost a selling point. They were like, proud of it. They were like, Yeah, we don't have a diversity of thought here on campus. So the fact that not only we seeing that, that switch over to not not to the other side, but rather just saying, You know what? No, no, we're not activists. Regardless, we're just saying, You know what, let's teach kids, yeah, stuff that's important, instead of trying to turn them into little car carrying, you know, members of of what? Yeah, terrorists.

Zachary Marschall  9:35  
They LARP being terrorists. Um, you know, there's one anecdot I can give you that explains the process that's caused this pushback. So during her congressional testimony earlier this year, former Columbia President manoo Shafiq was presented with a dictionary from that was made on her campus by students that included a bunch of crazy terms and. That go into gender ideology, but also use the word Ashkenazi, normativity, which is a derogatory thing they made up on the left to go again to further criminalize being Jewish. When presented with the dictionary, the president of Columbia refused to leave or was real. She said, Oh, these must be typos. Oh, they probably don't know what they're talking about. She had no clear context that these are real ideas, that these words are representative of the ideas that have been taught the past 40 years. How,

Brian Nichols  10:29  
how does somebody in college, like that's a president of the college not know what their kids at school are learning?

Zachary Marschall  10:36  
We only, we only see what we want to see. And these administrators, the board members, the presidents, they only wanted to see what they wanted to see, and they refused to believe that the people protesting on their campuses were pro terrorists. They thought stupidly, the best of people who would overturn everything that we stand for. And so what we're seeing here with the neutrality policies, with love and speech, is that the people at the top are finally realizing that they were dangerously naive and wrong this whole time, and they are starting to wake up. And once you do that, you realize there's there is not two sides to this issue. There's only one side, and that is the pro American, pro traditional value side when it comes to education. Zachary,

Brian Nichols  11:19  
what about the true believers? Because there's lots of them, right? So what about both the true true believers in the activist camp, but also those true believers who you rightfully pointed out, they they took over the halls of academia as professors, as TAs right, and now as administrators, and they're the ones who've been leading these again, these institutions that we used to look to as, this is the next step in life, right? You go to you go to elementary school, you go to middle school, you go to high school, and what's next? Right? Either your your trade school or you go to college, right? That was always the next step. And now we see these institutions are, they're, they're entirely made up from an administrative faculty and and a teacher assistant perspective from these, these little activists. So Zachary, what about those true believers?

Zachary Marschall  12:14  
They are making careers out of their own grievances and out of their own personal interests, and sometimes their personal interests includes killing, raping and torturing Jews, as did many other people's interests in Germany during the 1930s and 1940s these are people who are influenced by radical ideologies that have been indoctrinated into them and brainwashed into them for decades. Higher Education forgot that you're supposed to teach about topics, not to brainwash them into students, and they are the result of that. So they are leading a bunch of people who are, I think, lost in life. I think a lot of the people in the crowds were sitting in Columbia today don't know who they are, and they have no sense of their own self, and they are clinging onto an ideology they barely understand. They can't name the river or the sea and the chant. They don't know where it they couldn't find Israel on a map, and the people leading them know this because they are zealots who will just corral the masses into overturning their institutions and hopefully the destruction of the Jewish people.

Brian Nichols  13:19  
Why are Jews the target like and this is the question I know lots of folks have, right is it just seems like these issues don't really become issues until it becomes the Jewish populations that are being targeted specifically. Now this isn't to say that the Jewish populations have not been targeted. Obviously, Jewish populations have been targeted for generations at this point, but specifically in the context of where we are today. The dei conversation, right? Zachary, it's, it's been going on for several decades at this point, but we really haven't seen a true pushback to this until October 7, like you're Bill ackmans of the world, right? Who he's like, Yeah, I donate a gazillion dollars to my my alma mater. Um, but now I'm starting to question that. Do do I want to give a gazillion dollars to a bunch of anti semitic kids who I don't? And again, I'm not saying that they're not anti semitic Zachary, because they are, but I don't know if the anti semitism is rooted from antiSemitism. So rather, is it rooted in this dei perspective? Because, again, if you're always searching for a victim, then you can apply that to almost any circumstance, just as a lot of these little drones that have been going out and protesting on these college campuses have been doing over the past few years, right? They they're not protesting necessarily Jewishness or Judaism or being anti semitic through a hatred of of Jews, but rather, they're trying to apply this Jewish Palestinian conflict into the DEI perspective. Right? You have your aggressors and you have your oppressors, then you. Year versus the victim class and the oppressed. And it this, this gobbledygook, mashed potatoes brain mindset has has carried over into a lot of different areas. It just seems that it really, it reared its ugly head during the the preceding events, from October 7, 2023 to where we are a year later, as we're recording this to today, and that was, it seems, what woke up a lot of folks, my former Congresswoman up in New York State, Elise Stefanik, holding all these different college presidents to account and and making them put the the words of the college, but also the words of themselves behind the insanity with no ability to hide behind the DEI nomenclature instead. Now it was like, Hey, this is the direct impact of your your actions or inactions, right? In many cases, of allowing this mentality to to fester. So my main question to rewind all the way, right? Why? Why is it always it seems that this does not become a an issue we as a society take in any seriousness until Jew Jews end up getting brought into the conversation, of course, always in a negative light, help us out there. Zachary, yeah,

Zachary Marschall  16:15  
so I think Dei, in this context, acts as a gateway drug, and what it's doing is facilitating the transition from grievances against the so called, you know, these hierarchies of oppression into actual anti semitism. And we were seeing the distinction between being pro Israel and being Jewish to slip away. So just over the past weekend, for example, we saw two things happening in Michigan. One that assigned commemorating the Jewish New Year, which was last year, was the face with pro Gaza and pro Palestine language that also threatened to the destruction of the Jewish people. And a group of Jewish students and a rabbi were held up at gunpoint, and that was the fourth violent attack on Jewish students at University of Michigan that month alone. So what we've seen, though, in the past year or so is that we have seen Jewish students be punched, be knocked unconscious, be poked in the eye because they are Jewish. A UCLA Male Student last spring was forced because he was barricaded physically by anti Israel protesters. He was denied entry into an academic building he needed to get into as a student, because he was identified as Jewish for wearing a Star of David around his neck. And then I Leon Omar, during the congressional testimony, opened up a photograph of the incident with a map and said, This is not anti semitism, because he could have taken the back entrance. If that doesn't sound like, you know, separate but equal and racial segregation. I don't know what that is.

Brian Nichols  17:41  
I just don't, I don't get where the parents right? And as a parent myself, which still feels weird to say, but as a parent myself nowadays, I don't understand how so many parents can just be what spectators in their own children's lives, and either a not help guide these kids to understand just the basics of right versus wrong, but also to be able to identify the bullshit when you see the bullshit right. Because, I mean, and you know, this isn't to say that I agree 100% with, you know, the values or the principles or perspectives of my immediate family, and, heck, my dad and I have had battles beyond, you know, that could easily go on this show. But like looking at even that there were, there was, like, common sense, and I'm just gonna use the common sense. There was common sense instilled in me, which, thank goodness there was because common sense nowadays don't seem to be too common. So when I look at the the average parent who sees their kid go off to these again, these, these institutions that they believe are supposed to help propel their kid to the next step, make them so they're going to be, you know, the better version of themselves than they were and they went into college so it can help them, you know, obtain a good career or or to set up their their next step in life, meet the perfect person you know to start their lives with whatever, whatever the the next step is from, that's coming from college, coming from university. How parents can sit there and objectively look over the past 50 years of what's come out of these institutions, and then say, You know what little Susie should go little after she graduates College, Zachary, Little Susie should go to college. Like, do you want to destroy your child's brain? Or, at the very recent Can you if you're gonna send little Susie off to school? Like, maybe she wants to be a nurse and she needs that degree, okay, can we at least prepare Little Susie, like, get her so she understands the world she's walking into. And I just see so many parents, Zack, and maybe this is something that you're seeing on on campus, as the editor in chief at Campus reform, but like, it just feels like so many parents, they themselves, were never really invested in all. Understanding how things work and how we got to certain areas that we are today, and now, when they're seeing where their kids are, they're like,

Zachary Marschall  20:06  
how did we get here? It was never this bad when I was a kid. And it's like,

Brian Nichols  20:10  
oh, you're not helping your kid understand what's happening today. Is almost a direct result of you not understanding what was happening when you were a kid. And whose fault was that, I'm not gonna say blame their parents, but like, you don't know what you don't know. And now we're in an era Zachary, and here's my question, right? We're in an era where we can hop on a podcast. I didn't even ask where you're hailing from, but I'm here in the middle of Indiana. You're probably somewhere halfway across the country. We can have a real live conversation on as we're recording October 7, a year after, we were getting live streams of the insanity and the destruction and the bloodshed and the the terror that was taking place over in Israel, right? We all got to see it real time, without filters, by the way, which for better or for worse. I hope you know folks see that that at least opens your eyes to what's actually happening out there without that? You know that nice, beautiful Snapchat filter that the media puts on any news story that they want to look good. So how? How we've gotten to a point where parents, again, they just were like, Man, I don't know. I don't know what I don't know to now we know so much. It's almost Zachary. It feels like it's, malpractice not to know what's going on the world. You have to actively avoid information. So I say all that to ask, Are we at a point, Zachary, where we are going to see not a change from the institutions which you already saying we are, which is great, but rather a change from the folks, I'd say, matter the most here, the parents, the parents who are, what's that word? Oh, yeah, parenting. Um, like, are we going to see a change in, in in the the home, in terms of what kids are learning from their parents now that the information, I mean, it's everywhere, you can't escape it.

Zachary Marschall  21:58  
Yeah, and I think you're right to point out that it takes a lot of hard work to be this dumb that does not come naturally to anybody. Before I answer the question about the parents, I want to just, you know, for sake of your audience, you know, set the stage for what was happening up till before October 7, 2023 so the two decades worth of indoctrination, of brainwashing I mentioned, as I was going on, the language being touted as sophisticated markers of intelligence that, you know, were seen as or used to push anti Israel, anti make tropes through academia was getting more and more dense and jargony, on purpose, because the only people who'll be able to parse it and understand it Are people with PhDs. So parents on October 6, 2023 understood what their kids were learning in college much less than their parents were 22 years before that. Then when you see the protests erupt on campus, you have these night you have these uninformed parents, you know, call their kids on their phone or text them and say, Are you seeing this? Are you part of it? What's going on? It's very easy for the kids to lie. Because they were all in COVID mass. They pretty much camouflage themselves completely, saying, Oh no, I'm not part of it. It was so easy for them to lie to their parents or to sanitize their involvement. So I think there's a lot of deniability and a lot of naivety. I'm part of the parents in the last year. That being said, though, where we're seeing the most progress and most promising signs of improvement in the situation are the as with the parents of high school students. High school students and their parents over the last year saw this play out, and they said, No, I'm not touching that. So the protests started in October of last year, December is when early admissions decisions went out. Harvard saw an immediate drop in the number of accepted students, even with early admission, because they had no interest in being part of such a tainted, anti semitic school. We'd love to hear it. We have seen billions of dollars evaporate in donations over the last year from parents, as well as from people like Bill Ackerman, and we have seen depressed enrollment rates over the last year, as well as more kids are going to trade schools or to community college, and those going to four year degrees are now leaving the Northeast in California, which is The concentration of this academic, of these anti semitic incidents, and going to southern schools, or going to big state schools in the interior, where there is a greater deal of tolerance and respect for religious and ethnic minorities, as well as more patriotism. No one is trying to torch the American flag down in the south the way they are or to the degree they are in the northeast, so I think we're in a shift as well, that by the end of the decade, the parents of the upcoming generation of college students are going to have a very new definition of what makes a good education and what makes it a good school. Zachary,

Brian Nichols  24:55  
I neglected to ask a question as we started things off today, because. Yeah, we talked about, we're recording here on October 7, and all these protests started about a year ago, and it felt like when the academic year ended at this, the beginning of the spring here this past academic year, it felt like that was kind of the bookend, right? Like, okay, you know Pauli, the Palestinian protester. He's going out, and he's like, I'm gonna fight injustice, yay. And then he goes, he goes back to, you know, upstate New York, and he's gonna go be a lifeguard for the summer, right? Is Paulie the Palestinian protester? Like, is he going back to campus here this year and picking up where they left off? Like, I, candidly, I haven't heard of protests here starting out the academic year. I know we're, like, four to six weeks for some colleges, you know, back into the swing of things on campus. So are we seeing protests this year? Is Paulie the protesting Palestinian? Is he just, like, out of work this year? What's going on? Yeah,

Zachary Marschall  25:59  
Paulie is back from, like, Georgia and protesting in Disney. We saw Cornell, and Columbia erupted in protests right away. Cornell, yep,

Brian Nichols  26:10  
that's like, right down the road where I went to college.

Zachary Marschall  26:12  
Oh, I'm also from upstate New York, yeah. Where about where you Syracuse, okay, yeah,

Brian Nichols  26:18  
so we're gonna talk afterwards, because we have lots, lots of commonalities up there. I went to Elmira. So same, same area. Man, I totally get in, by the way. I was having a nice conversation with my VP of institutional advancement, asking Brian, why did you go to your 10 year reunion? I was like, I have some thoughts, but different conversation for a different day. We talked about Zachary. Sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt there. Who Cornell,

Zachary Marschall  26:39  
yeah, but I think what people I think right now, we are what I would call the eye of the storm. So, you know, okay, now pounding Florida. So to use that metaphor, you know, the part of the storm that is the center and gives it strength, but if you stand in it is deceptively calm, so, and that's because what we have seen is that the tactics are always going to be shifting. So I don't think these protesters are going to redo exactly what they did the previous semester. What we have seen, though, is more isolated and more one off incidents against Jewish students, rather than mass encampments. Today, we are seeing a lot of protests, especially at Columbia University, as part of the week of rage. And I think what the students and the National chapter of supporting them are been doing for the past two months is to try and push the envelope as much as possible, and then figure out what they can get away with. So I think today is going to be a testing ground. So by the time you know people are listening to our conversation, we're gonna have a much better idea for what the rest of the academic year is going to look like based on how the week of rage went starting today.

Brian Nichols  27:45  
I know this is probably not a fair question to ask, but I just feel that we need to ask the question, what are the protesters hoping to accomplish? Like, what? What does winning look like for them? I mean, they're out doing this every day for weeks on end. Like, what happened? Like, how do you know you won? Do you win? Do they want to win? I don't know. Zachary,

Zachary Marschall  28:10  
it's a it's a mixed bag, depending on which zealot you have as your leader over there. But for a large contingent of the protesters, it's complete divestment from Israel. And what that looks like is having your university completely cut all ties with Israeli companies, research institutions and personnel, which can include, you know, divesting investments in companies that profit in Israel, or to kick any Jewish Israeli professors off campus. One thing people need to look for is what's going to happen at Northwestern Brown University and Rutgers later this month too, because those schools negotiated an end to the tent encampments last spring, and they were really not codified at all. It was a mutual understanding that the university would somehow entertain their pleas, and at Brown University, they're supposed to have a vote on whether or not to divest. So the board is supposed to be voting on divestment at some point this semester. But if they vote against divestments, they probably will, the students will probably erupt. So they're not going to settle for anything less than that, now for the more ideal. And you know, people out there who are even less centered in reality, they want to see Israel be wiped off the map. So they're going to keep protesting their local dining hall until Hezbollah or Hamas actually nukes Tel Aviv

Brian Nichols  29:36  
Zachary. There's a lot here that we I know I want to dig into, but I know we're already getting hard pressed for time. So we're going to, we're going to go towards our final thoughts. But I just want to take away from this, and maybe this will be my final thought. I got a lot of buddies, you know, both, both still good buddies and buddies from yester year. And you know, we've had reasons I've talked about many times in the show, you know, COVID, that was definitely. A big, a big point of contention for a lot of folks. Um, this, this issue, though, never really popped up because wasn't really a topic we talked about during our tenure of, you know, back when we were in college, it was, it was more social issues. It was the DEI stuff they were talking about, right? Like, make sure that your your buddy who's, you know, questioning whether or not he's a dude, make sure that he feels comfortable in his transition to a girl, instead of saying, like, Hey, dude, you want to talk like, let's have a conversation. What's going on? Like, why are you doing this? And that was never allowed, right? And we fast forward to today. I see a lot of these folks who I used to hang out with, talk to a lot, and just see that they have tacitly, tacitly, maybe, maybe tangentially, started to support this stuff. And this is where I get really concerned, because we talk about slippery slopes, right? And, you know, those are logical fallacies, Zachary, because, because it's a slippery slope argument. Well, slippery meat slope. We're here now, and I've only had to look 10 short years to see the progression from where I was and my friends were to where they are today. Now for me, I've definitely taken a hard step back and said, Hey, maybe we should not just do this whole go along to get along like I was a libertarian who was very much in the live and let live camp for a very long time, and that's changed. I have entirely changed my live and let live perspectives, because I've seen what happens when people just are like, oh, you know, people live different lives. Oh, and we have to embrace all these different perspectives. No, no, you don't. As a matter of fact, I think it requires us, in not just modern day, but it has for our history, to acknowledge that there are certain cultures that are worse than others, and that's just the reality a culture that values murder, rape, destruction of innocent individuals. I'm sorry there's there is no context to to you know, have the My back hurts right now. Zachary trying to imagine the mental gymnastics I would have to implore in order to justify the idea that that's okay. And yet, there are, in fact, students who are doing that today, and there are folks who I went to school with who are doing that today. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave my my final thoughts with this, Hey, Ron, my buddy Ron out there. His name is spelled R, A N. We used to call him ran because it was funny. He was from Israel, and he has, for his entire life, since he came to America, very much, tried to fit in in this live and let live mentality. And I know Ron has started to maybe start to take a step back from the perspectives he had, and he implored when he realizes that this slippery slope, it doesn't end right, like there is no real like end of the slope, the slope just keeps going. And I think he was starting to realize, I texted him when January or when October 7 happened, because he has family over in Israel. He himself is Israeli, and he served in the armed forces there for two, three years. And like, just talking to him was like, Hey, you okay? And I could tell it was a different run, right? Like he his vibe was just different. It was no longer this. And at that point, he and I kind of had a little bit of a battle, nothing bad, just like a difference of opinion, very much so from the COVID era, and there was a difference to him in terms of acknowledging that the people he thought were on on his side, that were the good guys, right? This, this dei perspective, the live and let live mentality, to see them, the folks he was agreeing with just a short few years ago with the COVID Insanity now just turning the guns, metaphorically, and in this case, in real life, towards him and his people, it was a huge slap in the face of reality. So as much as it hurts Zachary that we're having this conversation a year later, I'm hoping, if we can, and again, I hate to even say that, can we find some good here? But the good may be that it's changing the way people approach these issues, and starting to wake people up to the reality that, no, we are not all the same. We are not all equal in terms of our values, in terms of our principles. And in fact, we need to acknowledge that, right, that there are good values, Western values, I think we all acknowledge during the Brian Nichols show audience, that Western values have predominantly been the best values that our world has ever seen. But also, on the flip side, there is evil out in the world. There are bad people in the world. And instead of trying to say, Oh, well, this poor person, they just had a terrible circumstance in life. That's why they did this terrible thing. Nope. How about this? How about we just say, hey, that person did a terrible thing, and there's no excuse. There's no justification. Because as soon as you start to make. A justification for the most horrific atrocities. God, I don't want to even begin to imagine what other horrible atrocities you could justify in the name of social progress. That's my final thoughts for today. Zachary, what do you have for us on your end as we wrap things up?

Zachary Marschall  35:17  
I completely agree with what you're saying. I think in addition to helping bring awareness to this issue and helping people understand the anti semitism that was always there but they never wanted to see or couldn't see, I've been trying my best to through my writing, through my TV appearances, show that American to American Jews who are predominantly liberal. You what you have assumed to be true and what you assume to be real has not been the case, and you need to wake up because they will not protect you. In the end, the people who you thought were your allies were not your allies. They you need to get some real politic and understand that judicious history is 6000 years old, and it is marked by violence and persecution, and the piece we've enjoyed in the last 50 years is an aberration.

Brian Nichols  36:08  
So let's see if I got it here. Zachary, I'm gonna be really proud of myself. I still have it. Oh, I don't have it. I was looking for my old campus reform stickers I got in 2015 back when I went to CPAC. 20 No, 2013 when I went back to CPAC. So I was going to show you that I am a long term, long time campus reform supporter, and you guys are doing amazing work. I have been a big fan of campus reform for a long, long time. So folks, if you want to go ahead and see what the heck is actually happening on these college campuses, and you're in, you're like, it can't be that bad. Oh no, it is. And Zachary and his amazing team over at Campus reform, I couldn't, unfortunately, show you just that by peeling back the curtain so you can actually see it with your own eyes. It's like, what was that Sandra Bullock movie where bird box, right? And the guys are like, Ah, you're gonna do that to folks, Zachary, and we need that to happen. So campus reform folks, please go ahead and support them. And Zachary, with that being said, where can folks go ahead, find you if they want to continue the conversation, if they want to reach out, give us all the social media handles and links there.

Zachary Marschall  37:08  
Yeah. So it's pretty easy to remember our social media handles for campus reform, our campus reform for Instagram and for Twitter. And mine is for Twitter is at Zach March, Z, A, C, H, M, A, R, S, C, H, and people can enjoy my infrequent tweeting,

Brian Nichols  37:27  
infrequent tweeting, that's okay. I need to figure out how to do that. Apparently, I tweet a lot more frequently than infrequent, and my wife will tell me that as many times as possible. So with that being said, Zachary has been a great conversation. Unfortunately, I wish it was something about more upbeat and fun, but this is stuff we need to have these conversations, right? And to the audience out there. I know I see your emails, Brian at Brian Nichols show.com email me, by the way, your thoughts. But I see a lot of the emails, and I have a lot of folks asking for more of the conversations around this, this October 7, um, anti semitic conversation, the college protests that were happening and and to really understand the why, right, we talk about solutions here at the Brian Nichols show, it's not simply enough to just simply say problem and then leave it there. We have to offer solutions to these problems. And Zachary you and the amazing team at Campus reform are doing just that, specifically to this issue of how the hell our kids got to be these brainwash, I almost said a bad word, brainwash progressive goofballs over there on campus. But with that, we're going to put a pin in our conversation today campus reform. All links for campus reform, as well as for Zachary, are going to be in the show notes. So please go ahead, give him some love, folks, and when you do, please let them know that you heard Zachary and the amazing team at Campus reform over on the Brian Nichols show. With that being said, we're gonna go ahead and wrap things up. Zachary Marshall from campus reform, thanks for joining us on The Brian Nichols show.

Zachary Marschall  38:53  
We'll talk to you. Thanks. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai