866: Why Are Public Schools Getting More Money But Worse Results?

Brian Nichols  0:36  
Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Well, hey there, Brian Nichols here on The Brian Nichols Show. And thank you for joining us on a course, to the fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host joining our lovely cardio miracle Studios here in sunny Eastern Indiana. The Brian Nichols Show is powered by our friends over at an America folks get the news you need to know without the corporate media bias or fluff had to amp america.com for news articles, opinion pieces, podcasts, and more. Also, The Brian Nichols Show is powered by our phenomenal studio sponsor, cardio miracle. Now, folks, you've been listening to the show for a while you know that cardio miracle is in fact the best heart health supplement in the world. And if you want to learn how cardio miracle can help lower your blood pressure, lower your resting heart rate, help improve those restless nights of sleep plus, give you more of a pump at the gym, stick around. We're gonna go ahead and talk more about cardio miracle later in the episode. But first, we're going to talk about a recurring topic here on the show in more recent months, and that is the education system, the schooling system, let's talk all things in that world. But specifically today, we're gonna go ahead and laser focus on teachers. How can we help teachers and to join that today is Shannon Hazel, she's joining us talking about her brand new book, new teacher confidential. Shannon, welcome The Brian Nichols Show. How you doing? Hey, I'm

Shannon Hazel  2:10  
good, Brian, thanks for having me.

Brian Nichols  2:12  
Thanks for joining the show. Yeah, I'm looking forward to digging into our conversation today. And I know we have a lot to unpack when it comes to the educational system, teachers all that they spend in terms of time, energy, and of course money into helping their kids learn and have a fruitful education. But before we go into today's topic, do the audience a favor, Shannon, introduce yourself here to The Brian Nichols Show audience? And why do you find yourself in this world of focusing on education, particularly through helping empowering teachers? Yeah,

Shannon Hazel  2:43  
so Well, Brian, I was an educator, I was a teacher for 25 years. And I recently retired in June. And I knew that my first order of business was to write a book for new teachers, there are so many things that teachers coming into this career paths, just don't expect, weren't aware of. And quite frankly, get caught off guard by and it becomes very overwhelming. So I thought you know what, before I get too far removed from the education system, I'm going to write about write a book and hopefully try to help some new teachers, set them up for success. I

Brian Nichols  3:18  
love it. I love it. Well, and let's dig into today's topic. Right. And that is really it is around teachers. So let's set the stage here. We're in 2024. We've had what the Department of Education here in the state since the 70s. Out and by the way, elephant in the room we've seen when the Department of Education, you had this golden beacon on a hill comes into existence, education standard should just skyrocket right? Opposite. So something's happening, right? And I know we talked before we hit the record button, you said maybe we should start funding teachers more, but I'm looking at the funding right now. It's not the teachers who are getting that money. It's the administrators that are getting the money. So it looks like the dollars are there, Shannon, but they're just not going to the right folks. Now, we have a bias here in the show. And I'm gonna say maybe that's inherently due to institutional incentive structures that are built in our education schooling system here in America. But let's talk about you know, how can at least look at that system right now and maybe get some band aids? I don't know. Talk to us about this problem we see and what are some of the solutions? You're workshopping here?

Shannon Hazel  4:22  
Yeah, so band aids is a good, good word for this because we often Band Aid solutions and education. But as anyone in education will tell you, it all starts with funding. So we have to fund our schools efficiently. And quite frankly, just need to spend more on them if we're going to deliver the education system that we're saying we're delivering. So those monies have to make it to the frontline. They have to make it to teachers to students. And our classrooms need to be equipped with things that teachers and students need to create a productive learning environment so that all students can Learn at a high level and get the supports that they need.

Brian Nichols  5:04  
So let's dig into that, because I've had our good buddy Cory de Angeles here on the show a couple times. And he has the idea of fun students not systems. And it breaks my heart to see some educators who they, they want nothing but the best for their kids, they want to see the kids that come through the school have successful educational careers that will propel them to a successful real life adventure. And yet, we see a lot of the money just not going to the right places. So Cory recommends the idea of having the money, follow the students and then in the marketplace, being able to help empower teachers to not be isolated by your zip code of where your school district offers different services, but rather let the teachers go where the money is, to your point, right. And with that allow the money to follow the education or the educational institutions and the teachers that are actually helping get the good results for those those kids. So talk to me about your perspective on that.

Shannon Hazel  6:04  
Wow, that's a lot. So that's different than the education system that I'm used to. But it's quite, you know, an intriguing idea.

Brian Nichols  6:12  
By the way, what's the system that you're more familiar with?

Shannon Hazel  6:16  
So I'm in Canada. And so we our funding is a little bit different. And I'm not super familiar with the funding system in the United States, however, yeah, we fund per student. However, as we all know, depending on your zip code, and you know, the area that you live in, some schools are able to fundraise or find creative ways to raise more money for their schools than others. And so there really is this, you know, haven't have not happening in Canadian schools, where, depending on and I'm sure it's similar in the US, depending on where you're located, can also dictate how much how much your school has for funds. So I think that we we just need to look at increasing the funding, yes, let's, let's do it per pupil. Sure. But there's just not enough, we need to increase the amount that we're allocating per student so that our classrooms are equipped with the basic things they need. I often use the analogy that we wouldn't expect. Surgeons going into an operating room to have to bring their own equipment, in order to operate on patients, yet we expect teachers to have to bring all of their own equipment in order to educate students. And again, depending on, you know, that financial barrier that teachers may face, not all teachers may able to be able to fund their own classrooms. So we really need to find a way to not just Band Aid, this financial crisis in education, but find an actual permanent solution.

Brian Nichols  7:49  
No, I agree. And here actually, as you're finishing up here, I'm gonna share this screen. This is specifically outlining Chicago school spending. And this, I think, paints the picture that we need to talk about, right? So Chicago schools has had an increase from fiscal years 2012 to 2024, of 97% in spending, which I think addresses the first part of what you raised up here, but then you look at the outcomes, right? We see in further audio listener who's not seeing what we're seeing on screen here, the reading and math rates have precipitously declined to negative 63% and negative 78%, respectively. So what does that mean? spendings, up 97%. Since 2012, grades are down 60 to 80%. Now listen, I am the product of a public education. But I'm looking at those numbers Shannon, something's not adding up. And I know math was my weakest subject. However, even I can look at that and say, something's not mapping out here. Now, I gotta find the other graph I want to show here. But the there's another graph that breaks down the spending, where it allocates the money towards students, towards teachers. And then you see the graph towards administrators. And this is where I think we can really laser focus on some solutions today, right? You look at the administrators, and the administrative state, and just looking at the schooling, the schooling situation we're talking about here today as the example. It's gone up just exponentially. And the increase for students and teachers, it's at this very steady, low increase. So something's not mapping out with the teachers and the students getting there. Let's use the favorite term fair share, versus where this money is now going towards administrators. Now, I'm not going to open up the door into a lot of other topics or where the administrators are spending their time like a lot of these sometimes silly initiatives that are more focused on making people feel good than actually helping educate our kids. So talking about where maybe we could start finding solutions, some solutions, getting the money out of the administration and more towards the people who actually need it. The teachers and the kids.

Shannon Hazel  9:54  
Yeah, I think when you put up that graph, it's like shocks people, right? If they just look at it, but you have to under Stan, where is that money going? And like you're alluding to, it's not going to teachers and students. So one would think you increase the funding, you're going to increase results, which is only true if you're allocating that money into the right places, right? So we need to look at a solution where that money is going directly to teaching and learning to teachers and students. And, quite frankly, our, you know, parents need to hold the decision makers accountable, and say, Okay, we know that there should be a correlation here. And there's not why not, you know, why does that graph look like that? Why are you increasing funding, but our student outcomes aren't increasing. And that needs to be, you know, at the forefront of, of the parent conversation, they need to be with the decision makers, expecting more that these funds go, where they're needed and where they belong. Because at the end of the day, the parents and the students are our customers, and they're the ones we need to answer to. So they have every right to be asking those questions.

Brian Nichols  11:03  
By the way, I love that you use that word, they are the customers, because you're spot on, they are the customers. And that is exactly why. And going back to maybe where this is just a cultural thing being from Canada. And by the way, we talked about beforehand, I am Canada light, so I can empathize with like my Canadian friends. Because I grew up in the northern New York border right there in Canada, we go to Canada all the time, that's Chinese, it was a place called The New Yorker, right across the border in Canada. So go, there's your bingo card they never thought you'd be filling out today. But we again, going back to the ideas that I really I've embraced here on the show. And this is something again, Cory de Angeles has been really promoting here in the States. And this might be a new way of thinking about funding education. Shannon, I want to hear your thoughts about this. And this is the idea of school choice. And I'm not sure how super familiar you are, but just the basics for maybe you and the folks who aren't familiar with school choice, the idea that instead of the traditional way of funding schools where zip code 123456, they have their there are folks that live in that community. And if you grew up in that community, you could only go to the public school where your zip code permitted. Whereas the school choice model is saying, hey, let's take this funding directly away from going rate to that that zip code and rather let it go to the parents, because to your point, they are the customers here, let them now take a step back and say, Where can I send my kid to get the best education, not the best schooling, but the best education. And with that, I want to make sure that the dollars are being used efficiently and effectively. So much like we were just talking about, it now empowers the parents to say, Okay, this school over here, their district is getting their administrators paid like crazy, crazy dollars, but their teachers and the students that money is not going to them. Whereas over here, I have a different school district, I can send my kid to now and with that the funding following that student, because the administrators say hey, we're gonna take a base salary, and it's not going to increase over 10 years, let's say, but the money we're going to have going in it's extra, we're going to have that go directly towards the kids and the teachers and empowering them and improving their conditions in the in the classroom and giving them more opportunities to go outside of the classroom to get that real life experience. So across the board, it's not so much a matter of how do we get Mr. or Mrs. bureaucrat, in our case, DC and your case in Ottawa? How do we get them to hear us and see this complaint and change these huge, massive funding mechanisms. But that's why we're saying, hey, just change the way that the dollars are being allocated, instead of saying, We're gonna send it directly to that school, we're gonna send it to the parents, and we're gonna let the parents decide, because, as you said, parents and kids are customers, and they know best, just like, they were to say, hey, Shannon, where are you going to go shopping? Tonight, we're going to Walmart or Target, right? You have a choice. But if you were to say, hey, Shannon, we're gonna go to Walmart tonight, because we can only go to Walmart, because that's literally the only store we're allowed to go to, not the only store, we can go to the only store we're allowed to go to. I mean, that might change the way that Walmart builds the builds in their pricing structures, or the way that Walmart invest their money, maybe they're not going to go after the you know, lower prices live better Walmart, but rather, maybe they're going to be like, hey, they can't choose somewhere else. So maybe we can start giving everybody bonuses like crazy, just because so that's kind of a SparkNotes version of school choice. Now, if that's new to you, Shannon, I want to hear your feedback. And if it's not new, and you're like, I'm not so sure. Your feedback as well.

Shannon Hazel  14:36  
Yeah, I might be on that. Oh, I'm not so sure. So, in theory, I love it. It sounds great. And choice is important. In realities, I feel like being on the inside of education. It's a little bit of a logistical nightmare. What we coin here as school shopping, school hopping, I should say, where, you know, parents, students, somebody gets upset about a little thing. And that's it. I'm pulling my kid out of your school and I'm going to this school and then three months later, they're upset about something else. And that's it. I'm leaving the school and I'm going to this school. So logistically, we could see a lot of transiency in schools where parents and kids are school hopping, constantly trying to find the right fit. I also think that'll

Brian Nichols  15:18  
be quick. By the way, is that a bad thing, though?

Shannon Hazel  15:22  
Yes, because there's going to be gaps in kids learning when they keep switching schools. And then a new teacher has to get to know them again, and learn their academic abilities and their personalities and their strengths and needs. That takes time. And then if curriculum was covered here already, and they go here, do you know what I mean? There could be gaps in curriculum. So I do see that as possibly a detriment to students more so you know, your average or maybe struggling students, not your students, where academics seems to come easy to them. But typically, you know, the students we would see, maybe hopping around would be ones that are more struggling, and parents are thinking, There's got to be something better, and then trying to find that something better, it could actually be to their detriment, because nobody gets to know their child really well to dig in and know exactly how to help them. And I also think it's, it's letting you know, our politicians and our governments out easy. We're not saying, hey, the standard in every school has to be high, we're saying, you know, we're gonna pick and choose and go to the ones that are high. And then what about the kids and the parents who may be have other barriers, like their work, life doesn't allow for them to get their kid to another school, they don't have the transportation or access? You know, it's going to open up some other barriers that hopefully people who are proposing this have considered. But while I agree with the spirit of it, from being a teacher on the inside, I can see some logistical things that may not play out, as anticipated.

Brian Nichols  17:00  
Well, and I agree, like we can't, and maybe this is a philosophical thing, from my perspective is that well, we can't control everything. And by design, we've seen that the more and I'm going to use the Star Wars analogy, I know you guys all love the Star Wars analogy, but like it's It's Princess Leia tucked into Grand Moff Tarkin. And she's like, the tighter you grip your fingers together, the more star systems will slip through, right, like or something like that. But like, that is, in essence, what we've at least I've seen, right is that the more and just look at the American system here, for example, 1970s, the Department of Education comes into play, and they say, Hey, we're gonna do just that we're going to set the standards for these state school or they state jurisdictions and they're in obviously, your your school district is your school district, but it follows certain state standards, and the states are now going to follow certain federal standards. And you would think that because of that standard, now being set in place, that we should see a direct result of increased test scores increased funding directly to the teachers. But this is the part that I get nervous about, Shannon is that, I hear that and it sounds great. But then I see the results. And I get a little a little queasy, because in here, I'm going to share this in the screen right now. Here's the graph, I was looking for an 88% increase since 2000, in the funding towards administrative staff, versus 37% increase for principals and assistant principals, and what's that? The very bottom? Oh, it's so hard to see. That's right. It's the percent increase towards funding for students and for teachers 8%. So an 80% discrepancy. And that's telling me Shannon, that something in the incentive structures in the back end aren't working. So from an economic standpoint, I take a step back, and I say, Okay, well, we know supply and demand. And yet, we're seeing where we shouldn't be having more supply. And there's obviously going to be a continued demand. That should help dictate a natural price. And yet, I know we don't need this many administrators, or the funding to follow this, this number of administrators versus where it shouldn't be going. So let me ask you this. How do we, when you talk about like the the bureaucrats and the politicians? How do we get them to fix I guess I'm gonna use that term. How do we fix that? When it seems like this is a direct outcome of their attempt to fix it?

Shannon Hazel  19:33  
We got to show them the data. The data says it's not working number one. And number two, I feel like we have to improve, you know, the perception of public teachers, public school teachers, like we're often the target instead of being supported, right, just like teachers need to support students. The public needs to support their teachers and demand that they're paid fairly and that they're treated with respect and that they're treated as professionals. So that more people want to be in the profession stay in the profession. Because we know when teachers are constantly turning over, that there's a learning curve there. And it takes a while to hit your groove and become, you know, the professional teacher and have the skills and the knowledge to help students. So if we're constantly seeing those teachers leave the profession, and new ones coming in, we're never going to get that efficacy that we want. So we need to value them, we need to pay them their worth. And we need to raise the bar of the attitudes and opinions of teachers because we're now living in a day and age where, you know, you call home about a child's academics, behavior, social, whatever it is. And the parents aren't supportive, they don't support you, you're wrong, it wasn't their child. The conversation takes that negative tone. And we really are putting teachers in a hard place where they're not able to do their mandate, they're not able to educate children, and keep their classrooms running efficiently. When we don't have the supportive parents, the public, the politicians, the various stakeholders in education. And we need their support to do our best work and we need their funding. How

Brian Nichols  21:28  
much do you think that the four years of teachers and specifically not that I'm gonna rewind my I'm gonna retract my statement officially? How much do you think that the the four years of specifically teacher unions, I'm going to clarify that keep keeping kids out of school and forcing them to go to remote learning, thus opening up the the educational practices, right, so parents now are actually getting a first first person perspective? Look at I did learn something in history class, Mr. Timmerman, a first person historical perspective of what their kids were actually learning. And by the way, I mean, let's just call it for what it is. We see a lot of the social cultural issues now permeating into these government schools. So how much of those factors do you feel over the past four or five years have really impacted the perception that parents have towards the government schools, the public schools and with that, I'm not saying teachers specifically. But the teacher unions. I mean, Randi Weingarten here in the States, she was advocating for school closures up until 2023. So we see that that is something that it not only has continued to resonate here in the States, but there's a lot of animosity from parents and, and frankly, a lot of teachers too, who said, I don't want to not be able to teach in school, like I'm not a high risk person. Okay, let me go to school and teach. So how much do you think that maybe those play into the the factors of people not really being as supportive as you would like, or maybe they have been in the past? So

Shannon Hazel  23:04  
that's a loaded question. There's a lot in there to unpack. But I, you know, I often get frustrated that teachers are grouped in with their teacher union leaders, because the teacher union leaders are there to ensure fairness, they're in there to be the balance and check of the government of the politicians of, of what's happening with funding and in schools. And they're, they're necessary. And as teachers, we need them, because, quite frankly, the politicians, governments, they would have swallowed teachers up by now. If we didn't have them at the front line pushing back. However, teachers themselves cannot speak freely in the public. We can't be on TV answering reporters, questions about how we feel about school closures or, or those sorts of things were represented by our union leaders, and union leaders and teachers themselves may see things differently. They're looking at the the system as a whole. And we're looking at it from a very different lens or perspective. So we have to differentiate between union leaders and the teachers on the front line number one. And then number two, I think that remote learning, it did a lot of things in education. It gave parents a window into classrooms, and what a teacher, you know, faces on a daily basis somewhat in a artificial environment. However, parents were also quick to judge teachers on the level of programming, which we had no warning, we didn't see this coming or not technology experts. We don't you know, we've never had to run online classes. And so the was a huge learning curve where every teacher was, you know, every man for himself. Nobody was handing us the resources and the technology pieces and the online, textbooks manipulate whatever we needed to be successful, we were just making it up as we go along while learning to adjust to live in this new, you know, COVID world. So was it an accurate reflection of our classrooms and our education system and what teachers do on a day to day basis? No. And so again, being judged on something very artificial, that is not representative of what we do in our classrooms, where we had to shift on a moment's notice. But I also do think there are a handful of parents out there that can really say, Wow, now that I see all this going on online, and I see what you must be dealing with on a day to day basis when you've got these 30 different unique children in the classroom. And they see the the chaos that can be some parents came up with a new appreciation. So it went both ways, right? I don't know, I think that if we don't support our teachers, and help them do better, we're not going to fix this education system.

Brian Nichols  26:13  
So let me I have two points, I'm gonna go back to you really quick. So one of the things you mentioned is that teachers weren't prepared. And I actually agree with you, you guys were completely set up to fail. But when you go to the friends in the public, or the private sector, who, whether charter schools, private schools, and so forth, a lot of them were still able to make things work, they were not only able to make things work, they were also able to continue the in person education. And I'm not gonna go into whole COVID debate, but a lot of it was based on the fact that the data presented itself saying, if you're young, you're a kid, or if you're a young adult, you're not at risk for COVID. Now, the older Americans are next Americans, the older folks in the world are high risk comorbidity folks. Yeah, they were absolutely at risk. So in that kind of a context, we can make educated decisions based on the data presented, but I just feels like the government data, and the government school was not allowing conversation. And a lot of it went back to what the teacher unions wanted. Now, let me very quickly share a screen because I want to I do want to just one thing here, Shannon, I think we should we should focus on because you mentioned as a solution, funding these folks and getting more teacher dollars. And I think anybody listening right now the audience's Yeah, teachers need to be able to be empowered. But you said we need to punish the politicians that they create the scenarios that we can't fix this stuff. Well, I want to just quickly show you something. And this is something that blew my mind ready. So here, we open this up here. So this is from a website called open secrets, open secrets tracks funding across the board, specifically in usually, like nonprofits or think tanks, or, in this case, unions. And this was just so transparently shocking to me, when you look at now 2024. Here's the data for 2024. But we're only in June. So it's not 100% yet, let's look at 2022 and 2020. Here. So just for folks playing along in the home game who aren't watching the video version, let's look at this. So in 2022 $55.3 million, were given in contributions to political parties by teach the teacher unions in 2020. Something big happened in 2020. What was that? Oh, yeah, COVID, something else happened $66.5 million was given in donations and contributions to politicians. Now, this is where it gets really interesting. Let's look at where that money actually went. percentage to Democrats 99.47% went to the Democratic Party in 2022, and 97.2%, in 2022, Democratic Party Republicans in 20 22.19%. And in 20 22.38, they couldn't even get a whole percent. So I look at that. And again, I'm not super good at math, but I was good at statistics, that speaks volumes. And it's not an outlier. Because if you scroll down, let's go all the way down to 1990. Just here's the contributions for folks again, from the Democratic Party, but rather to the Democratic Party, from teachers, unions. 94% 96% 98% 97% 96% 94%, you're gonna see a recurring theme, it's all 90 plus percent. So I say all that Shannon, you just look at the data, right? And you look at where we are today. And I look at the system we have in place. And it just it's a hard sell to me to say we just need to put more money into the system when the system is getting lots and lots of money. And it seems to kind of be working as it was designed by central planners who have a really good idea of what they want to see in terms of schooling or education, but They're the ones controlling the strings versus if we were to go back to a free market system, it sounds like a lot of the solutions that you and I can agree on would be much more easily accessible, specifically sending the funding where it needs to go from the students, not the systems from the teachers, not the systems fund those folks, not the administrators, that's way easier for me to say, you know, what I can choose not to send my kid towards this schooling district that that's embracing this backwards? Well, we've always done things this way mentality. And I can say, you know, what, there's a Montessori school across the road that I can go ahead and I can support with my dollars, I know it's going to not just be better for the teachers and the students, but it's going to give them better outcomes. So I say all that that's kind of my final thoughts for today. And I would love for you to paint the picture in terms of where I got things wrong. If I got things wrong. I know I'm sure you have some disagreements, but also let's talk about from a I guess, common ground perspective, is there anything that you heard today, that was new, and has maybe opened your mind to exploring different ways of funding government schools, or instead of having it go towards the government schools instead, follow the students, not the systems.

Shannon Hazel  31:10  
Okay, so I'm gonna say that that last graph you just showed, again, I will agree that you in America are a little bit crazy, you do things that are like, like, that just doesn't happen in Canada, right? Like our teacher unions do not give loads of money like that, to any government. And I do think there's even rules about them being able to give money to support a government. So we may throw our support and say we back this government, but we don't put our dollars there. So that's a little bit crazy when I see that graph, and I quite frankly, didn't know that that was happening with the teacher unions in the United States, I do agree that we need reform, we need a different way of thinking about our education system, I often say like, I just want to like close schools and throw out the whole education system and like, get the best minds together to sit here and just redo this whole thing. Because we just keep trying to fix small pieces of it or throw a bandaid on something. And it really just needs a whole a whole redo, we need to do it over. We're not preparing the kids for the world that's to come or even the world that we're living in, we know that research to practice takes 20 years, and that we just can't keep up with societal changes, with the new skills demands technologies that are happening in the world. So we really just need to have a whole look at the school system. And, and go about it differently. And while I do see the value, and having the money, follow the kids and be with the parents, I just think that, you know, pushing that forward requires a lot of thought, because we will end up in the, you know, not the same situation. But we will end up with new problems. You know, if we were to follow that without doing that heavy thinking and heavy lifting, about what that really needs to look like, and how, which ways that could go wrong and put measures in place ahead of time to try to keep that from happening, because there's not going to be a perfect system. But I know for sure there's got to be a better system than what we're doing in Canada and what you're doing in the United States right now.

Brian Nichols  33:24  
Well, hey, I'm a sales guy by trade. And whenever I go into a company, one of the most dangerous phrases I ever hear is we've always done things this way. So at the very least, I would challenge you, Shannon to maybe bring some of your educator friends together and really dig into the whole idea of school choice, because we're seeing some phenomenal outcomes from a state perspective here in the United States. And again, I keep on bringing up my buddy Cory de Angeles, he's been on the show a few times he he has his title I have aptly named him is Cory de Angeles, the school choice evangelist because he is literally going around the country State Capitol, a state capitol, talking to educators and talking to politicians, and basically redoing the entire way that the traditional, we've always done things this way schooling system has been done, particularly from the top down government perspective, and it's having incredibly positive outcomes. And I think it is something that we should really start to consider more strongly especially, you know, from a, I'd say, a national perspective, but let's let's break down these borders. I want to go to the New Yorker and get the best Chinese food in Canada. No more borders. No, I'm just kidding. All my open border friends out there saying yeah, he's one of us now. No, not yet. But no, when we look at this topic, right, let's go into Canada. Let's start bringing these ideas because we see them working in the little test cases. Right. And by the way, that was kind of the whole idea of the United States was each little state was supposed to be its own little laboratory of liberty to see what can we do. What can you make work in this little state? And we're going back more to this Federalist mentality In United States, which I love to see, while still having a battle between the big overarching central planning approach from the federal government, but it is addressing some of these very, I would say foundational issues that exist both in the United States and Canada. Now there is one more graph. I know I have so many graphs, Shannon. But I did see this graph, and it was talking about the government school system and how it has become more of a jobs program than an educational program. Now, you don't have to necessarily agree with that. But just look again, at the data here, right? We've seen from 2016 to 2017, we had 6.1 million employees in the United States, staffing for schools. And then you look at there was 47 point 4 million students. Where are we today, 46 point 4 million students a decrease in a million students. And yet 6,400,000 teachers, an increase of 300,000, staff across the board, an increase of 300,000 employees. Now, again, I'm not good at math. But that ratio doesn't add up for me, especially when we go back to the funding graphs that we were showing before. So I think across the board, we can all agree, it's broken, this system be broken, let's try to bring some solutions. That's what we're trying to do here in the school choice world. But that's what you're trying to do as well and helping empower teachers. And I love that you're you're trying to focus the attention on the money to where it actually impacts the most positive good, and that is directly towards the students and the teachers. So at the very least, and by the way, this isn't just for Shannon and I today, this is for anybody in the audience who is listening, and they have their skeptical hat on saying, okay, Brian, this sounds a little crazy or heck, on the other side of the aisle, folks saying Come on, Shannon sounds a little crazy. At the very least this is showing that. Hey, we agree on the problem. Now let's start workshopping these solutions. So Shannon, that's my final thoughts for today. What do you have for us on your end? And of course, where can folks go ahead and buy your new book new teacher confidential?

Shannon Hazel  37:00  
Yes, it's new teacher confidential, what they didn't tell you about being a teacher. And you can buy it wherever you get your books, but it's also available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble all the major book real retailers. And it's really to try to help set new teachers up for success. So it's those things you don't learn in your formal teacher training, that you can only learn through experience trying to give you some shortcuts, and hopefully help set you up for success as you embark on your education journey as a teacher,

Brian Nichols  37:28  
give us like a sneak peek to the book, what's one of the most like shocking things that somebody who picks up the book and reads it would be like, Wow, I didn't know that.

Shannon Hazel  37:38  
Oh, I don't know. Um, you know what, I think my favorite part of the book is talking about student behavior. Because so much we hear student behaviors out of control. And it's really just a human connection piece. You know, we need to connect as on a human level with these students that are struggling and find out what basic needs aren't being met, before we can redirect that behavior and educate them. So I'm hoping to kind of reframe how we look at student behavior and especially negative student behavior, and see if I can help some new teachers figure some things out sooner rather than later that can help those friends that need us. And by

Brian Nichols  38:15  
the way, I have a lot of friends who I would say are much more Unshin inside of this conversation they their government teachers, public school teachers, they they've gone through the the process, and they look at the system and saying yeah, it's broken as well. But again, this is a dialogue that I think we all need to keep having and frankly having more Reese's resources not Reese's recesses. Well, you can have more recess. That'd be fun, too. I think Reese's Peanut Butter Cups are good too. But anyways, yes, we need to have more of a appropriate dialogue and having books like News New Teacher confidential. I think that's a great resource for any new teacher. So please, folks, if you got some value from today's conversation you listen to Shannon you say wow, she's she's got she got to figure it out when it comes to how do we help empower teachers to help empower our kids please go ahead check out her brand new book, new teacher confidential link will be in the show notes. And of course if you go ahead and purchase a copy, please reach out to Shannon and say Hey, I heard you on The Brian Nichols Show and I really appreciated your dialogue so otherwise with that being said, Folks, if you got some value from today's conversation beyond going out and purchasing said book, please go ahead and give today's episode a share. And when you do tag yours truly at be Nikolas liberty, you can find me on Twitter on Facebook on Instagram, where Shannon Can folks go ahead and find you should they want to continue the conversation all

Shannon Hazel  39:32  
the same places so you can find me uh Shannon Hazel on Twitter or teacher edu on Facebook and Instagram.

Brian Nichols  39:39  
Awesome stuff links all in the show notes. And by the way, folks, this has been truly one of my favorite conversations. Could you did you notice something? What's just microcosm this episode, Shannon and I were able to have some disagreements and not lead the conversation like we hate each other. We could have a an appropriate dialogue. Both bring some really good points. to the table, and I think it leaves both of us leaving today's episode with a lot to think about. So this is how you have a productive dialogue, you don't go on to social media and you start, like trying to flame each other, that that's not how you build a community that's going to be productive. So this is what we really want to empower our audience here, The Brian Nichols Show to be able to do is have these conversations that yes, can be tough at times, but to do so in good faith. And with that, make sure that we're really we're focusing on the outcomes, right, not just the isms, let's focus on the outcomes, what is going to lead to a positive solution across the board for all the parties that we have mentioned here today. So with that, please go ahead, support the show. Find us on your favorite podcast catcher, Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube music, or your favorite video version of the show, you can find it on YouTube, you can find us over on rumble, we have episodes going up in their entirety, over on Twitter and on Facebook. So wherever it is you'd like to consume your podcasts or video content, just please do us a favor, hit that subscribe button, hit that little notification bell and of course, head down below into the comments. We want to hear what you have to say because yes, we actually do enjoy having some audience participation. But please keep it nice. And with that being said one final plug, please support the folks who support us. Our phenomenal sponsors like cardio miracle, our studio sponsor evils CBD, the wellness company and our good friends over at amp America. Today's episode was not sponsored by The New Yorker in Canada in Prescott for the best Chinese food, but go check it out. Because if you're up in the northern New York area, if you're up in the Canadian, Ontario area, that's the place to go. I hope they're still open. I haven't been there in like 25 years, but I've been different conversation for a different day. Shannon Hazel. I've really enjoyed today's conversation. Any final thoughts for the audience as you wrap things up?

Shannon Hazel  41:46  
No, Brian, it was great to chat with you. You caught me off guard with your graphs there. I had no idea they were coming. So trying to digest those real quick. But yeah, it's always good time. Thank you. Absolutely.

Brian Nichols  41:57  
We had some fun. And folks, thank you for joining us. With that being said Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show from four rather not from Shannon Hazel from new teacher confidential. We'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai