859: Debunking MYTHS About School Choice and Funding

Brian Nichols  0:49  
Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Well, hey there, folks, Brian Nichols, here on The Brian Nichols Show. And thank you for joining us. Of course, another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host joining us from our lovely cardio miracle Studios here in sunny Eastern Indiana. The Brian Nichols Show is powered by our good friends over at an America folks stop giving the corporate media all the news and clicks and views that they so desperately want. Go to folks who are going to give you the news without all that corporate media bias or fluff and that is where amp America comes. in@america.com we have news articles, opinion pieces, podcasts and more. One more time, amp america.com. Also, The Brian Nichols Show is powered by our phenomenal studio sponsor, cardio miracle. Now, folks, you've heard me many times here on the show talk about the best heart health supplement in the world. We'll stick around and we're going to talk about that more in detail later in the show talking about how nitric oxide the secret ingredient of cardio miracle will help give you the ticker you've been looking for. Yes, the best heart health supplements in the world bar none. So stick around. We'll talk about in a second. But first, today's episode, we are going to go into the world of school choice once again. And to do that we're going to go back to an organization I have come to know and love now we had our good buddy Matt friend away on the show back in March. And we were talking about the school choice revolution. So today we are going to continue that conversation but not with that not with Matt today. But we are still talking to our good friends at Yes, every kid foundation. Joining us today is Ali Faulkner. Ali, welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. How are you?

Halli Faulkner  2:41  
Thank you, I'm gonna try to match your energy on this Saturday morning.

Brian Nichols  2:47  
It's like three of these yetis of coffee. Probably that's doing the trick. And I'm gonna give some credit to cardio miracle Halley. So well, I guess we'll have to send some to you and Matt over it. Yes, every kid. But how are things I

Halli Faulkner  2:59  
were great. We are so excited about the work that we're doing around expanding options to families and empowering families to make choices for their kids own education. I'm a parent myself. So I'm more passionate about this work than ever before. So I'm excited to get into it. I

Brian Nichols  3:17  
love that. And by the way, right here as a new dad myself, I have a 14 month old who's might as well be going on 14. But she I mean, you don't really see it right. And let's start off here people and in society by and large. And I'm going to generalize here I think they look at our education schooling system, however they want to classify it. And they don't really have a lot of opinions or vested interest in it, excluding their own personal experiences. That is until they become parents and then it becomes real because now it's not just oh, well, you know, those kids are gonna go to their school now. It's like my kid, where's my kid? Gonna go to school? Where's my kids gonna get an education? And what are they learning right in these government run indoctrination centers, which I know there's my bias coming out. But Hallie, let's talk about Yes, every kid and what you guys are doing to help improve school choice options. And why is that so important? So let's start here. Who is yes, every kid for the folks who may be missed our past few conversations with Matt, and why a school choice in this world of government run education is so important for parents.

Halli Faulkner  4:22  
Okay, so here we go. So at a very high level. Yes, every kid is an organization that supports policies that respect the dignity of every student. We welcome innovative ideas, we foster a diversity of approaches about learning. And we also build coalitions to advance new conversations and bold visions for education by bringing together different voices and perspectives. So, you know, I was listening to your last episode about like, pivoting outside of the traditional talking points and like reaching a new audience, and part of what we're working on now. Yes, every kid is is building a coalition of people who know and understand that the current like school, very tight and rigid school district boundaries that have been there for almost 100 years, are really harming families and harming students. And we have recently founded a coalition called no more lines coalition, there are almost 50 organizations that are part of the coalition now. It's a nonpartisan coalition, we have national organizations, local organizations left leaning right leaning center organizations. And to your point about, you know, creating a new narrative, this coalition is saying something new, which is that education system isn't working. And as you said, parents know that the education system isn't working. Because right now, unfortunately, most the mom was the only option that parents have is to buy a house that they often can't afford in a neighborhood where they can at least trust that their kid will be safe and learn.

Brian Nichols  5:56  
Well, and let's go back to something that you you, I'm not going to pick on you. But you did just brush over it. And it's not intentional. It's that the idea that we have had this schooling system for over 100 years. And as a sales guy, Halley, this is where I think, you know, my sales hat gets put on is that like, one of the worst things I can ever hear when I walk into a company is Brazilian. We've always done things this way. And that is the knee jerk reaction I get to anybody when I start talking about different ways of education or schooling standards, and they just look at me like I have four heads. But that's not the system we have now. Right? That's the point. So like, let's talk about this like to those folks, right, that maybe they do have this knee jerk instinctual reaction to just be adverse to change, which most folks are. But let's let's talk about those objections. What are some of the outcomes that you guys are seeing from Yes, every kid in terms of bringing school choice to the masses and seeing a market based response? It's

Halli Faulkner  7:03  
a really great question. So you know, there are two states that are really shining stars, when it comes to creating real policies that empower families to choose the best educational pathways for their own children. And I am assuming that you like me, believe that parents really are the experts when it comes to their kids and what their their kids want. And need, I'm sure like, even with your new little one, like, you know what, that one cry sounds like, you know, and you know, what that cry means. And as they get older, like, you know, we can be in conversation with them about what they want and need. And so, you know, what Florida and Arizona have done is they have really expanded educational options for families through all different pathways, right, through vouchers and education savings account programs, through expensive charter school sectors, and also through a policy called Open Enrollment. And what we have seen as a parents are more satisfied, and B students are as a whole in those states learning more. And you know, you don't have to go down the pathways of testing. But by the

Brian Nichols  8:12  
way, that's kind of important, right, like that seems, and who am I, I've got a layman, but isn't the whole point of school to make sure that they're learning more. So that just seems like it's by by its results? The whole goal right there. Yeah.

Halli Faulkner  8:25  
And so what we're doing through our no more lines coalition is really an end. And the report that we just released, which we can share in the show notes, is we're working on focusing on policies that can expand public school choice. So as you were saying, like, right now, the vast majority of kids in America go to public schools. And the public schools are highly divided by these gerrymandered, very strange school district boundaries that were actually created, you know, often through intense like redlining practices right between who gets to live in which neighborhood. And so three of the main policies that we're focusing on in our no more lines coalition are a open enrollment. So more and more states now are opening their school district boundaries to say like, yes, when there's room kids from other districts can come in, and kids who aren't assigned to our schools can apply and come in. And if we have capacity, like you're welcome to learn in our school, so that's like number one huge policy that more and more states are interested in, which is great for families. Another important family sorry, another important policy for families is decriminalizing address sharing. So unfortunately, there are 14 states right now where parents can actually receive criminal penalties for using someone else's address to put their kids in school. So for example, if your dad lives in a neighborhood, the better school your cousin lives in a neighborhood with a better school or school that's a better fit for your kid. Happens all the time, right parents use, you know, different people's addresses when the school that they're zoned to is not a good fit for their kids and some parents have even been Fine, charged with felonies and even gone to jail in rare occasions for literally just sending their kid to a public school that's paid for by by state taxes I will add. And then the last thing is what we really would like to see more states actually create a prohibition on address discrimination. So Idaho was the first state to create this kind of prohibition. And they did it in their legislation last year and 2023. And they flat out said, every district has to have a policy that says it will not discriminate against students solely based on their residential address. Because we do at this point think that assigning kids to schools solely based on their address is a form of discrimination. And the more states that can kind of enact that in law, the more families will be protected. Well,

Brian Nichols  10:46  
you know, it's funny, Hallie so before our episode today, I actually went out to one of my more left leaning buddies and I, I wanted to get some honest feedback from him about school choice, because he was a little on the fence. And one of the objections he gave me was just the actual opposite of what you said he was afraid that school choice would, quote, perpetuate, or even increase discrimination and segregation by saying private and charter schools may not be accessible to all students, particularly those from low income families or minority backgrounds, leading to a more divided education system. But hopefully, what you're kind of articulating here today is, dare I say the exact opposite?

Halli Faulkner  11:28  
Yeah, so you know, I, I would be, you'd be hard pressed to find someone I think who disagrees with giving parents more empowerment and more authority in where their kids go to school. Unfortunately, school districts right now, most school districts are just as segregated as they were, at 70 years ago, when Brown versus Board was decided some districts are even more segregated along racial or socio economic lines. But, you know, the interesting thing is that your friend mentioned, like charter schools and private schools, this policy, that we're kind of leaning into open enrollment, it's really focused on traditional public schools, you know, paid for by taxpayer dollars. And the idea that, just like you can go to a library across, you know, City Lines, you can go to a public pool or a public park, they never asked you like, Oh, do you live in this neighborhood? Because if you don't, you're not allowed to, you know, have a picnic in this park. You know, just like other public services, we really believe that public schools should be open to all students in the state, at the very least, it

Brian Nichols  12:40  
actually goes to another objection he had, by the way, I love doing the objection approach. Because guess what, folks, when we go out, and we're talking about this stuff to folks in the real world, we're gonna get objections. So we need to be prepared to overcome those objections, just like we teach in sales, believe it or not, so one of the objections I got, actually, a lot of them all come back to the issue with public schools, and like, it becomes this private charter school choice option versus the public school. That seems to be the framing. So one of the concerns he said was funding concerns. Opponents argue that school choice programs, particularly those involving vouchers, and charter schools divert essential funding away from public schools, it can lead to a decrease in resources for majority of students who remain in the public school system. And then another follow up was the impact directly on the public schools saying that if you go, if you're What do you say the argument, he says, I argue that public schools are essential for providing a common educational experience, and building social cohesion. And that we should instead be focusing our time, energy and efforts on helping refund or fund better the public school systems. So where's my friend wrong there?

Halli Faulkner  13:52  
I respect your friend, I

Brian Nichols  13:55  
wish someone does under season.

Halli Faulkner  13:58  
And and actually, you know, as you know, I think it's really important to have friendships across lines, you know, lines of difference. So I think these are the important conversations to be engaging in. You know, I'll come back to this idea about open enrollment, like this policy that we're talking about opening up school district boundaries. So I think at least open enrollment is one policy that your friend might even be in supportive because it doesn't take any money away from the public schools. It allows kids to stay in traditional public schools. It just says that, like, Hey, if you're a parent who wants to send your kid to a public school in your state, you can apply to school districts that are not in your one little attendance zone. So it's not taking any money out the money ideally follows the kid. So let's say in Indiana, I'm guessing the funding per student is like 11 or 12,000. So ideally, you know, when a kid crosses a school district boundary to a school, that's a better fit for them. They can just kind of take that funding with them like a backpack. Sometimes we call it backpack funding and go to another their public schools, we're not taking any money from the public schools, I will say I have worked in education policy for a very long time, some days feel longer than others. And I have never seen a policy pull as highly or be as widely supported across ideological and political lines as open enrollment. We did a poll last year that found that 84% of adults polled across all you know, demographic lines supported the idea that any kid should be able to attend the public school that fits their learning needs, regardless of where they live, regardless of their socio economic status. So this is what I'm excited about. I you know, just like you were kind of highlighting your last episode, like I'm tired of the traditional talking points and arguments like, I want to get behind policies that a empower parents and be speak to a broader kind of nonpartisan coalition of of people, which is what we are, are in the process of creating for our no more lines coalition. And I will say, as a plug, any person or organization that wants to join, or no more lines coalition is welcome to do so. If you just kind of Google it, or you can go to our Yes, every kid website, you can find the info there. And we'd be really excited to be in conversation with you.

Brian Nichols  16:19  
I mean, this this is just I mean, and you know, I I'm not necessarily allergic to the word libertarian, I'm not I'm libertarian show for what 860 episodes, but very much, I just feel we as a country are trying to get away from isms and labels, and focus more on just common sense. And you look at this approach. I mean, Hallie, it just makes sense. And that right there, I think speaks to how we have to position this is not a left versus right issue. Not not not socialism versus fascism versus libertarian is like, just get rid of the isms. Let's talk about why this makes sense. I mean, I don't know if you heard the news. The number two most popular soft drink in America right now is Dr. Pepper, it overtook Pepsi. So now Coke is huge news. But out there, right? If big Pepsi, and big coke had their way, they would have been number one in two spots indefinitely. But the marketplace, looked at the situation and said, Nah, actually, Dr. Pepper is now the number two favorite soda in America. Now, by the way, soda, in my opinion, is poison because it's just full of sugar. But regardless of that, that was a market decision that wasn't some bureaucrat in DC determining things. It wasn't some bureaucrat in your state capitol determining things, it was people going out and voting with their dollars, right. And that right there, I think speaks to why this approach is so important, but also just again, goes back to it's just common sense. When you give people choices, and they have a vested interest in the outcome of said choice, they're going to be thinking about it in a much more careful way, versus just saying, oh, man, tax man took 2030 $40,000, from my property taxes to go towards the school district, I hope it goes well. And you know what, I have to physically move in order to have a different choice, you know, I'm just gonna go ahead in this option, and just move my dollars elsewhere. And that speaks more than, you know, going to a public hearing and just, oh, I'm angry and waving your fist at the sky, you're actually now making an impact by using your dollars elsewhere.

Halli Faulkner  18:30  
That's exactly right. And, you know, that's why this issue of like, open enrollment really transcends politics and transcends party lines, because it is common sense. And, I mean, this is reflected in the fact that both Alec the American Legislative Exchange Council and differ Democrats for education Democrats for education reform are part of the coalition. Like there's a reason that the you know, this issue of opening up school boundaries and, and creating more access, creating more abundance, right and empowering parents like our is an issue that's resonating across these, you know, the Pepsi and Coke divide, so to speak. All

Brian Nichols  19:09  
right, how are we now we gotta go into, I guess, the future of school choice, because I hear a lot of people who they are excited about school choice, they want to get on board with school choice, but they don't know really where to start. And I think this is where the marketplace I'm going to use marketplace very loosely here. But the market actually has a little bit more of an uphill climb versus the status quo solution, which is our government schooling system, right? So you look at the different options out there, people they're trying to go through and figure out what's going to be the best fit for my kid versus government just saying, here's this government school, pick this it's easy. So let's help empower some of these parents and help create a better future for school choice. What are some resources that are out there for parents who are looking to either dip their toe into the waters of learning What school choice looks like and how it would be good for their kids, talk about open enrollment, all that fun stuff, but also have viable solutions that are practical, tangible, and they can actually take action on right now versus just again, pie in the sky. This stuff sounds great, but where is it in real life?

Halli Faulkner  20:16  
Yeah, it's a really good question. So we are always happy. Our organization is always happy to be supportive of parents and point them in the right direction, so to speak. So, you know, if you want to share my contact info, you can reach out to me directly, and we're pretty well connected with, you know, the state based organizations that support parents, most states, not all, but most states do have, you know, at least one or two organizations that can be supportive of parents and help them learn about their educational options.

Brian Nichols  20:47  
All right, Hallie, we are getting towards the tail end of the episode. And this is the part of the show where we'd like to start to wrap up the episode with a nice, neat bow. And we do a little segment called Final thoughts. So when you're looking at the audience today, and again, there's a lot of folks who this is either their their first exposure to the whole school choice, argument and value or folks who just they don't really realize that there's a choice. And by the way, there's a lot of folks out there who they are in that camp, because as we talked about here on the show, quite often, when you're going out and leading with political issues, you have to focus on the issues that matter most to people. So we say meet people where they're at on the issues they care about, but when people are focusing on Oh, my goodness, I'm at the grocery store, and I'm pushing my grocery cart. And I just realized that I don't know if I have enough money to cover everything in my grocery cart, because inflation is so tough, or oh my gosh, well, I have a job because my company is doing layoffs like crazy right now, like all these really just scary thoughts are hitting people right now based on where we are as a society and as a world. So let's let's talk about like, how can we get people who are kind of in their own little bubble and understandably so aware of what's happening with school choice, and help make it an easier decision to maybe navigate away from the government schools, but do so so we are actually meeting them on that specific area that we can hopefully most effectively address their issues?

Halli Faulkner  22:17  
It's a really good question. So, you know, as we've been talking about, like, we believe that families should be empowered to choose the school that meets their children's needs period, regardless of government imposed school district boundaries. Since the pandemic, so many more families, and I know, you talked about this with Matt, from my organization, so many more families are getting creative, about how they're how their kids are educated, whether it's online, whether it's through micro schools, whether it's a combination of like, hey, you know, I'm going to take this AP Calculus class at my high school, and then I'm going to roll the rest of the time in a career and technical education program. And you know, the more estates really can be supportive in letting parents know their options, the better. That being said, some states are better than others, and letting parents know their options. And I know that as a parent, it can be really stressful, it can be exhausting, it can be overwhelming, to try to figure out like what options are available and like do a cost benefit analysis. So like I said, if you are interested in these issues, either for your own family, or just as a bigger picture advocating at a state level, please feel free to reach out to me or organization join our no more lines coalition. I will say looking forward to the 2025 legislative sessions. There are a lot of states that are really gearing up to expand their open enrollment programs and give families more educational options. So we're really excited about the year ahead. And that kind of grassroots level advocacy will play a huge role in the shifts that we see going forward. So cool.

Brian Nichols  23:54  
And by the way, this is why I love having you guys from Yes, every kid up in the show because you actually are helping not just talk about these ideas, but you're actually bringing them to the people that need it most. And by the way, for folks who are playing around along in the home game you probably saw my cup here zipcodes shouldn't determine education classic go on students systems. I'm gonna have to send some of those over to you and the amazing team there at Yes, every kid what will get you you and Matt some stickers in the team, some stickers. But this this speaks to Hallie why I wanted to have you on the show, right? Because this is an issue that is evergreen, it will continue to be an issue if you're a parent out there and you have you know, a kid getting ready to eat or go to school or they're currently in school. This is something that shouldn't be on your mind. And and I think we're seeing right now, by the way, like we didn't even dip our toe into the cultural issues, what's happening in our government schools. But if you're a parent and you're worried about you know, the whole like the trains and the kids thing or like the pride stuff at schools, here you go, here is a solution to that problem. You don't like what your school is teaching your kids move them somewhere else. and take your dollars with them because that is, in my humble opinion, the best way to actually make change and to make progress and actual progress, right? It's not some government bureaucrat telling you this is how your kid needs to be educated needs to be school. That's the actual term. But rather now you as the parent taking the really the authority back from the bureaucracies and having your vested interest in your child and their education. And not relegating that to somebody hundreds 1000s of miles away, Hallie, we are getting towards the tail end of the episode. So we did our final thoughts. But how about this, let's go ahead and make sure folks who are listening today and they're like, Alright, please got me all excited. We're on board. I want to get my kid school choice options. We're gonna go ahead and learn more from Yes, every kid reach out to you continue the conversation, all the resources you guys have so on and so forth. Hit us with it. Okay,

Halli Faulkner  25:53  
so you can find us it? Yes, every kid.com. And then it you can also do slash no more lines coalition, or you can just Google no more lines coalition. And that's the best way to connect with us about this work. You'll also find on our website, our recent no more lines report that I authored. And so if you're a policy nerd like me, and you really want to kind of dig into the weeds of these issues, or your legislator or a staffer who wants to like start thinking about some creative legislation for the 2025 session, that's where you can find that. And we're also of course, on Instagram, Facebook acts all that good stuff.

Brian Nichols  26:28  
Perfect, awesome, how we how about this, we'll make it easy for the folks at home. We'll include all those links in the show notes, I'm going to ask you to send them to me afterwards. But now other than that, folks, we'll make sure all those links are going to be available. So please go ahead and check them out. And if you got some value, which I know you did from today's episode beyond going ahead and giving it a share, and when you do tag yours truly at V Nichols liberty, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, please reach out to Hallie, these are the types of conversations I know she likes to have. Matt likes to have over it. Yes, every kid and frankly, I mean, I've promoted him many times during the show, but I call him the school choice evangelists, Corey D. Angeles, he does amazing work going from state capitol, the state capitol talking to politicians talking to elected officials and not just saying why school choice is good, but actually giving them the tools to bring school choice to their constituencies that right there is what we need to do if you want to have success. Stop just talking about this stuff. Stop just being you know, a passive participant in your life. Get involved, get active and get involved in your kids education because at the end of the day, you are mom you are Dad, it's your responsibility to make sure your kid is getting the best education they need if they're not do something about it. So with that being said, please again, go ahead share today's episode and where can you find the episode? We are a podcast we are a video show. So you can find us on your favorite video platforms YouTube rumble. We're on Twitter, we are on Facebook, uploading the video in their entirety over there. But from the podcast version of the show, your favorite podcast catcher Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube music, wherever it is, you get your podcast, you should find The Brian Nichols Show, hit subscribe. And by the way, download all unplayed episodes. As I mentioned at the beginning of the show, we have 860 episodes here of The Brian Nichols Show going all the way back into the archives to Episode One in January of 2018. To where we are, as we're recording today, you know, a sunny Saturday in June 2024. And I guarantee as you go back through, you're going to hear a lot of different perspectives, some different contexts, some nuance that helps really show why this is such an important topic with past guests we've had including Affer mentioned Cory de Angeles and Matt friend away and a bunch of other awesome folks talking about and promoting school choice and school choice policy. So all those are available at Brian Nichols show.com or in your favorite podcast catcher. Either way, just do us a favor, hit that like button, hit that little subscribe button and head down below into the comments. We want to hear your thoughts. If you think school choice is the bee's knees. Please go ahead. I don't know why I'm channeling my inner Joe Biden whispering today, but I am. Please go down below into the comments. Let us know your thoughts or heck, if you got some objections, as I mentioned on today's show, we will see objections and we want to hear them because maybe you got some good objections. Let's have some common sense discussions about those objections. Just please do me a favor, keep it respectful and keep it polite, but also keep it educational, enlightening and informing. I don't know that tried to do that. It's my little new slogan here in the back. I'm done. Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show for Halle Faulkner from Yes, every kid. We'll see you next time.

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