833: Mob Attacks and Death Threats - The Untold Story of a Slavery Abolitionist

Brian Nichols  0:26  
What if the history you thought you knew was just the tip of the iceberg? Plus? Why is it important for us to over tell stories in an era of boundless information? Yeah, let's talk about that. Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Hey there, folks, Brian, here on The Brian Nichols Show. And thank you for joining us on of course, another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host joining us from our cardio miracle Studios here in lovely Eastern Indiana. The Brian Nichols Show is powered by amp America very excited to be part of the amp America team news articles, opinion pieces, and more all over amp America if you're tired of the news, with all the nonsense in the fluff, you need to check out amp America. Now I'm not just saying that because I'm part of the amp America team. And because I write some dare I say, bangers over IP America when it comes to some opinion pieces, actually just wrote an awesome piece. I am definitely promoting this right now an awesome piece in terms of misinformation from the media, it actually kind of correlates with our conversation today that we're going to have with our guests. I'll touch about that in a little bit. But when we're talking about the the media and its framing of issues in such a dishonest way, and how it actually leads to more conflict, yeah, I dig into that and more over amp America, so be sure to check that out. Amp america.com. Also, The Brian Nichols Show is powered by cardio miracle yours truly is also powered by cardio miracle for like the past year. And folks what is cardio miracle? It is the best heart health supplement in the world. No questions asked bar none. Now, like I said, I've been using cardio miracle for about a year now. The secret ingredient, nitric oxide, why does it matter because if you take cardio miracle, you will experience the benefits like yours truly has experience, better sleep better pump at the gym. And namely, this is the best thing for me both just from a health standpoint. But heck, I'm a new dad, I want to be living for a long, long time, lower blood pressure. I was blown away. I have a family history of high blood pressure. I literally I work out six days a week, I eat healthy, and I'm like, what more can I do? I'm doing all the right things. And I found cardio miracle. And I watched as my blood pressure went from like a 140. Over 90. I know down to like a 120 over 80 consistently blew me away, I was shocked at just how much cardio miracle has helped me and I was just blown away with not just cardio miracle as a solution, but blown away that more people aren't aware of cardio miracle. So here's what I want to bring to you my amazing audience here at The Brian Nichols Show. And that is an exclusive offer 15% off your order of cardio miracle if you use code TBNS at checkout, how about that. And also there's a 100% money back guarantee. So you literally have nothing to lose besides that high blood pressure like I did. So if you want to go ahead and take part in the cardio miracle difference for yourself, head to the show notes. Or if you're watching us in the video version link in the description. Cardio miracle is the best heart health supplement in the world and 10s of 1000s of other folks have already experienced the difference for themselves. I see you in the audience who's already taken advantage of cardio miracle. There's literally dozens of you guys out there who are using cardio miracle we're in the orders of hundreds of cardio miracles have been sent out to Brian Nichols show audience listeners, and I'm hearing from you guys as well that you're seeing the difference. So if you want to take part in the cardio miracle revolution, one more time that link in the show notes cardio miracle, the best heart health supplement in the world, your heart will thank you. All right, we paid some bills. But let's talk about history. And you know, to talk about history, and the importance of basically oversharing right, and, heck, we're a podcast. So we've had 830 Plus episodes here where I daresay we've shared quite a bit and with that, why is it important to share things as they happen and frankly, to be able to talk about the nuance the context behind what's happening in real time because maybe if we don't what actually is happening, we'll get forgotten to discuss all that and more returning to The Brian Nichols Show. Good buddy Caleb Franz, welcome back to the program. Caleb It's been too long. Where are you Ben? What's been going on?

Speaker 1  4:58  
It has been While but it's always good to be on with you, Brian and yeah, it's it's it's been very busy for me I've been in the process progress and the process of of writing a new biography, new book that's been in the works for about two, two and a half years now. It's finally going to be coming out here in October. Love

Brian Nichols  5:24  
it. And that's what we're going to talk about. Sorry, I didn't mean to channel my inner Joe Biden creeping whisper, man. But no, we're going to talk about yes, this brand new book, but also some context behind that new book Taleban for and I'm not trying to spoil the book, you're gonna do us all the favor of digging into the dirty details. But we're talking about a figure from history of going back to the 1800s very notable part of the abolitionist movement. No, not Frederick Douglass. And that's the point. There were a lot more folks in this greater movement who have been forgotten throughout the years. And namely, because we don't talk about them. And I want to really frame the context of the conversation today in that world, Caleb did that. This is why right? We're having this conversation today. And why we need to have these conversations because it's so easy for things to just get forgotten. Like I use this example a lot like everybody in the audience. Just think for a second Caleb you can play along if you want. Think to your parents, and think about what you know about your parents quite a bit. Now think about your grandparents. What do you know what your grandparents eating them out? Right? Think about your great grandparents. What do you know from them? A little bit. I remember my great grandma, she grew up in depression. She lived in a chicken coop for years. I know that on my my dad's side, my family came from France, like some French Canadian stuff. But then what about their parents? My great, great grandparents. Now I'm getting like into the weeds. And that is exactly why it's so important for us to share history to talk about what happens as it happens. So Caleb, let's set the context here for this conversation. Who are we talking about? Why was he an important figure in this abolitionist movement? And why do we not know John Rankin's name? I had a look, I forgot his name. And we talked about 10 minutes ago. Yeah.

Speaker 1  7:16  
Yeah, it's not a household name. And that's a that's a shame because John Rankin is for all intents and purposes, the, the father of abolitionism, he wrote a series of letters. That was they were public letters that were addressed to his brother after he, his brother had had purchased slaves. And this really deeply sort of disturbed him in a way that that motivated him to action and, and produce these letters, so that everyone can read them because in his mind if he grew up in this deeply religious and deeply anti slavery household, and if even his own flesh and blood can can be convinced or be tricked, in a way of convincing himself of the arguments that slavery is either not as bad as it as it really is, or that it might even be beneficial to the slave or one of the various arguments that was was kind of thrown around at the time to to preserve its own institution. If that can happen in his own family then there are countless of individuals who have never heard these arguments and likely never will.

Brian Nichols  8:38  
That is like the epitome of taking the the self hating Jew argument we hear right now the Israeli context, but like, that's right. There's like a, like a real argument like the benefit to slavery for the slave.

Speaker 1  8:51  
Yeah, okay. Yeah, there were a lot of you know, there's a lot of arguments in the in the early to mid 1800s That today really make our head scratch and and kind of open our eyes a bit, but they were they were serious arguments that had to be to be overcome. And John Rankin's letters were kind of the first step and helping make sure that we did overcome that. And more specifically, they eventually found their ways into the hands of a man named William Lloyd Garrison, who if you may have heard of him, the notable mentor of Frederick Douglass. And garrison is sort of known as, as the man who kind of put together the American anti slavery society, he launched the liberator, greatly thought of as as one of if not the most influential figures in the abolitionist movement. And because of renkins influence on Garrison that kind of reframes our understanding a bit of, Well, where did the abolitionist movement really begin And I argue in this book that that really it started with with Rankin and his letters.

Brian Nichols  10:05  
So Caleb, why? Why haven't we heard of him before? Why? Why has John Rankin fallen so far down the ladder of historical records? When I when I think of the abolitionist movement, I think of Garrison I think of Frederick Douglass, I think of Harriet Tubman. Like, these are the names that we all read in our in our history books. And when we're growing up in school, is that why we're like as a society? That's what we know. Because we have and I think we talked about this last episode with Joe goalless Aryan like we have this Overton window that we're allowed to discuss history within and can't get outside of it. Right. Is that part of it? Or is there something that we're missing here?

Speaker 1  10:49  
Yeah, this was a question that was one that really stuck with me throughout the writing process, because it wasn't entirely clear. It seems so obvious that someone like this should be much more popular than than what he is every time I mentioned it or have have spoken to the book about with with someone. The reaction that I get is almost unanimously like, one, this is an incredible story. And then to Why have I never heard the story before? So So clearly, the reaction is there and and the interest and the intrigue is there. But he's largely still been forgotten about. And I kind of wrestled with this question throughout the writing process. One reason I think, is because it's a little at the time of the Underground Railroad and the abolitionist movement, it was a little bit safer. Because a lot of these these people that we know of are from either New England or from the eastern seaboard on the coast. And it was still dangerous, but a little bit safer. And somewhere like a Boston than it was where John Rankin was in Ripley, Ohio, right on the border of the Ohio River, overlooking Kentucky. He was he was planted very prominently, just on the other side of slavery. So anything that he said or did carried a certain amount of risk that was much greater than anything that was happening and New England or New York or anywhere on the East Coast.

Brian Nichols  12:37  
And to that, Caleb, just just because I think we need to have the appropriate context to that risk. can you articulate what the consequences would have been right in associating it with that risk?

Speaker 1  12:50  
Yeah, well, I mean, John Rankin was mobbed. Frequently, throughout his life, especially in the 1830s whenever the anti slavery movement was really beginning to pick up steam, he had rocks thrown at him eggs thrown at him, he had to eventually start parking his horse on the other side of town whenever he would go and give a give a lecture or a speech because anti slavery or excuse me, anti abolitionist mobs would often go and shave the horse and Bob its tail. Really, like really cruel stuff. Eventually, he also had bounties put on his head up to $3,000. So this was not dead or alive. So this is not, you know, light stuff, which

Brian Nichols  13:37  
$3,000.18 60 was like, enough to be set for a while. So it was

Speaker 1  13:44  
it was it was like more than a mortgage down payment is today.

Brian Nichols  13:48  
Like what that's like a life.

Speaker 1  13:51  
Yeah, it was no insignificant sum of money back then. And that that was you know, he was the man that the anti abolitionist, and the slaveholders and, and in the South would look at, especially in Kentucky, across the river where his house set he was the man that everyone kind of looked at as the as the ringleader of all these activities. So it elicited a certain level of hope for the for the slaves that were escaping slavery, and trying to find their way on onto the Underground Railroad. But it also elicited a certain level of disdain and vitriol from the slave holders and that that came to fruition and more ways than one. It's interesting

Brian Nichols  14:41  
to me Caleb and I was kind of just the wheels were turning as you were wrapping that up like how we don't know more about John Rankin because you look at what he had to do in order to communicate his his ideas, and frankly, to your point, the his ideas being so controversial at the time, right? So you would almost think that more people would have heard of him because in order to promote his ideas, he would have to do so in a very public forum. And, and like you look where we are today, and maybe this kind of speaks to why we, we have so much information is because we have a community of folks who share sometimes overshare. But but maybe that's a good thing because it helps us more or less document when things are taking place. So when we go back in time, as we're trying to understand how we got to certain situations or certain tipping points, whatever it may be, in our in our history, we can be like, Oh, this is how we this is how it built up. Whereas was it just that people weren't documenting that John Reagan was going out and speaking and causing such a ruckus? And I guess why? Why is it then that more folks like a Frederick Douglass are noted in history versus Rankin, who was basically he was he was the one upsetting the applecart from the onset and really making the name not just for himself, but for a movement that really wasn't carried forward until a few years later.

Speaker 1  16:09  
Well, Frederick Douglass, I will say, he got his notoriety for very good reasoning. He was kind of a mix of all the right elements at the exact right time. But a lot of the other abolitionists were became popular like I was talking about, there was an element of safety and in play in this, and largely whenever, whenever people would go through there was a another Underground Railroad conductor in Philadelphia named William still William cell. And he was he was a black abolitionist who knew Harriet Tubman, and he collected all the stories of the Underground Railroad passengers that that came through his station, and eventually published this in a book and the 1870s. Well, that didn't happen in Ripley, because he John Rankin specifically instructed a lot of the fellow conductors that were there in that community to either burn their documentation or or make sure not to leave a paper trail because the risk was that severe, especially after the Fugitive Slave Act of, of 1850, that they couldn't risk anything it was it was too dangerous. So there's an element of that to it as well. But also, Rankin was a very humble person. And he was not one to really promote his own accomplishments. He, he, he was a man of deep, profound faith that would be happy to promote promote that, but but less so his own workings. He did write an autobiography, but even you know, kind of reading through it, as I had the opportunity to do and writing this book. It's it's very apparent that he kind of downplay some of his more extraordinary feats and more extraordinary accomplishments, in favor of, of other people's stories. So kind of a combination of all those things kind of lead to John Rankin story being a little metal throughout history.

Brian Nichols  18:29  
Caleb, you you're writing this book, and you're telling more, you're sharing a story that hasn't been heard by a lot of folks. So what what do you kind of take away from John Rankin story? And what do you hope, not just the audience, but you know, frankly, anybody who reads your book will take away from John Rankin, and how do you apply what you've learned in terms of trying to tell someone's story that wasn't widely shared at the time and apply it to the context of what we see here taking place in 2024? I mean, look just no further than four short years ago with the COVID vaccine stuff, right, and the COVID Insanity, we're seeing why it was important to have documentation of what was said, because now we're seeing more and more folks say like, we never said that. We never said you had to get vaccinated. Otherwise, we want to take your kids. Oh, wait, we have the receipts. So is that maybe something that we could dig into a little bit more in terms of the importance of sharing stories today? I want to get your thoughts there, too.

Speaker 1  19:31  
Yeah. Yeah. You know, kind of, I mean, there there are several lessons to take from John Rankin story. And all of them are very powerful and very important. I think, the way that I frame John Rankin and this book is I kind of paint him as a George Washington type figure for the abolitionist movement. Someone who was the right person to use If I and otherwise very divisive, and community full of powerful personalities that would oftentimes overshadow some of the more pure driving forces of the movement. In that that certainly became a problem as politics got involved in the movement. And there's a lot of lessons there for, for our current world, and whatever movement that you're part of, it can be political, it could be religious. But John Rankin made sure because he had a certain level of integrity that I think is often missing and a lot of leaders. And he also had a certain level of understanding of duty and responsibility that is greater than himself. And that was a very significant driving force and all of his actions, he was a Presbyterian minister, so he felt called by God to, to eventually see that slavery was in fact defeated. And whenever you have that, calling, no amounts of of personal fame or personal glory, you can really outweigh that. So whenever whenever you have that weigh in on the other side of you, that, that that certainly that certainly helps keep your priorities straight. Caleb

Brian Nichols  21:25  
Franz, thank you, just not just selfishly, for coming on the show. But thank you for doing this. You're helping not just share stories from folks who played a huge role in our history. But I think you're you're doing more than just that today, you're helping paint the picture to the audience of why we need to share what we believe and not and this is my final thoughts, by the way, we have to stop being afraid, we have to stop being the people who sit on the sidelines and be spectators in your own life, you need to be an active participant. And that means standing up and speaking your mind saying what you believe now that doesn't mean going out and being like rude or combative or divisive. But rather, when you hold an opinion that is very near and dear to your heart, that he doesn't jive with the status quo, that it's okay to stand up and speak your mind. Because what happens when you do that is other people watch other people see, and it gives them permission to do the same and what you're going to find I can almost guarantee it that more people actually believe what you believe, than you would have guessed. And yet they were themselves too afraid to speak that truth, or to speak their mind for fear of Australian authorization or, or judgment from the community at large. But what we realize I think, when we start to stand up is that there are more people within our community that we didn't even realize were there. And we can really work together. And not just aim for a common cause, but to share the benefits out loud. So other people can not just hear it, but then down the road look back to see who was actually doing things differently, who were the ones trying new things innovating different ways of approaching very complex or controversial ideas. And it paints a picture not just for how they were able to fix a problem or to bring things forward. But it gives us a blueprint today that we can follow to understand how when we're facing crossroads, to know which road to take, and which crossroads in history were the most effective and yielded the most positive outcomes. Because for every positive outcome that we can learn from, there's also negative outcomes, we can learn from one look no further than, you know, Communist China or communist Soviet Russia, like these are all examples in history that we can look to. And I think pretty, you know, I hope adamantly say, We're horrible because they killed hundreds of millions of people and led to like complete backwards societies for generations. I think we can agree on that. Because they were, in fact, not good outcomes. So we wouldn't know that though. If we didn't have the ability to communicate and see what had happened in the past and to learn from what happened in the past. So that's my final thoughts for today. Caleb, I would love to hear what your final thoughts are. And also, this book, this book, you've been working for two and a half years on, Caleb, when can we get our hands on it and dig in?

Speaker 1  24:34  
Well, thank you for this, Brian, this is this has been great. It's always it's always good to connect with you and chat. I always enjoy our conversations. I will say that, you know, history is something that I think every citizen has a duty to kind of dive into and and and at least try to understand at least on a surface level is as much as they can, because this is the one area that affects I mean, perhaps, you know, you could argue that religion is is the other issue that that might do this, but there's plenty of overlap between history and religion. So it's it kind of goes back to, to history. Even with that, where this informs how we educate our children, this informs how we vote. This informs the values that we hold in more ways than almost any other, any other subject. So I it is I really can't emphasize enough how important important it is to go out and understand not just the big picture, sort of national history, but those in your backyard. Because John Rankin story has largely been seen as a very regional or very local story throughout most of American history, and that's a shame. And And there, I think most of your audience and I think most people who will come across this book needs to understand that most American history happens not really in Washington, DC or in New York City or in Boston, kind of the way it's framed. But it really happens largely in your backyard. And that's the big takeaway that that I hope that at least one of the big takeaways that I hope that the readers of this book will come to understand is that if you start to, you know, turn over some stones, you will find some really incredible stuff. Just like just like I have here with with John Rankin. The book is called the conductor. And it is the conductor, this the story of Reverend John Rankin abolitionism essential Founding Father, it's coming out on October 15. It is currently available for preorder. So if, if you're interested in the story, I highly encourage you to go out and and preorder this book, it really helps. As far as getting the more eyes on, on on the book itself. If you go to Amazon and just just preorder the link, then that will really help in a lot of ways. So that's that's the book and I can't wait for you to read it. Now,

Brian Nichols  27:22  
Caleb, we know my stick here, right? I'm the sales guy. So I'm going to make it even easier for folks to go ahead and find the conductor. And that is by including the pre order link in our show notes. So folks, if you want to grab your hands on a copy of Caleb's brand new book that he has been working for over two and a half years on, please go ahead into the show notes. Or if you're watching the video version of the show today into the video description, click that link, get your copy pre ordered today because I can almost guarantee that as soon as it goes live, they're going to be start flying off the shelves and it's gonna be hard to get. So make sure you get your copy of pre ordered today. And heck, if you do end up getting a copy, and you give it a read, I want you to reach out to Caleb and let them know that you heard him here on The Brian Nichols Show. I know Caleb loves to hear from our audience because usually when we wrap these conversations, it's like wow, Caleb, I didn't know about name person from history here. And then you know, I listened to the podcast and now I feel like I was their best friend. So Caleb, thank you for always educating enlightening and informing our audience. With that being said, where can folks go ahead, reach out to you if they want to continue the conversation over on the social medias?

Speaker 1  28:33  
Yeah, probably the most. Or at least the most active. I'm not very active on social media anymore, but I still kind of lurk in scroll. I'm on X or Twitter, whichever one you want to call it at Caleb Franz. And that's probably going to be the best way to reach

Brian Nichols  28:52  
a lurker, the ever Lurker that is Caleb Franz No, don't worry, you're not missing much, dude, like social media has pretty much turned into a cesspool. At this point. I kind of am on board with the dead internet theory at this point. And that is that the internet died in 2014. And everything that you've been seeing has just been, you know, internet, regurgitating all the other information that was on the internet and then turning it into this big amalgamation of just. And that's basically what it is. And it's really, really fun. Caleb, so don't worry, you're not missing much. And I know you're keeping an eye on it by being the lurker so just don't engage. I don't really I don't really engage either. Joe Biden back there, man.

Unknown Speaker  29:34  
Mental health that way. It really

Brian Nichols  29:35  
is man. Like I know this is taking a little bit of a different turn. This is the stuff folks we usually talk about the end of an episode after we hit and recording. But like seriously, when you're when you're online, it just feels I feel bad. I don't know how to even put it into different words like I just feel like I want to share my show. I want to promote the show, because I know that when we have amazing guests like you On the show or heck, we had Joe Golarion on here on last episode talking about, like, just how AI is going to be changing, not just the way we do things, but it's gonna be changing the way a lot of people are gonna be working because their jobs are going to be gone. So like, it's important for us to share these stories and, and yet, when I go, I'm getting ready to share my stuff. And I'm just like, Okay, let's let's, let's scroll for a second. And I just, you know, see oh, this person is literally the second coming of Satan look at the numbers are if you flip them upside down. I'm like, What are we doing? We'll be doing? Yeah,

Speaker 1  30:31  
you feel worse. And it's usually never productive. I still use it for for book promotion, obviously right now. But as far as leisure, I find more, more enjoyment and other activities. Yeah. Okay, we're

Brian Nichols  30:47  
still recording. So how about this, folks, you know where to find the show. I hope you do, at least at this point. Um, if you're a longtime listener, but I don't know, Caleb, we've been getting a lot of folks joining us after we joined amp America. So I'm just gonna peek behind the curtain here. That was me opening the proverbial curtain. By the way, for the audio listener. Our numbers are up 376%. Since January, I just I'm frankly kind of still shocked at that and stunned by that. And I want you to be transparent to the audience that that's where we are. We've just been blowing up. And I really want to thank the brand new members of the audience. But also to that I know for all you brand new members of the audience, there's probably a lot of episodes from the archives that you can dig through and catch up on because we've had Caleb on the show, like what killed four or five times, like several times over the Yeah, your first episode was back when you were doing the reintegration project number that? Yeah. Like I was I actually just that episode, by the way, like had a couple of random downloads, like a couple of weeks ago, like there was like, random, like a random 250 downloads. So like people are still going through the archives and checking them out. So anyways, I say all that folks, there are so many awesome episodes from yesteryear, here, The Brian Nichols Show. And I mean, heck, if you want to go back to the entire point and theme of the episode of today and just like listen to what we were talking about, as it was happening. It really gives you like, the not just like the what happened. But the additional necessary context of the timeframe of when it was happening. Like one of the first podcasts that I did during the pandemic was with our good buddy Renzo. And we were it was called like pandemic podcasting. And Renzo was doing on the run with Ramza Martinez. And I was still in the year two, three, I guess I started year three of The Brian Nichols Show, and like to hear us, you know, casually talking about where we were, it was like late March of 2020. And then you fast forward to, you know, I'm having who, Nick Hudson, from Panda, the pandemic analytics and data organization based in South Africa. And he was doing like crazy data and releasing that end of 2020, beginning of 2021. And just like, you know, here I am, like talking about like, I'm in Philadelphia, lockdowns are going crazy. Like they want Vax cards when those come out. And just the context of everything, it really does help paint that picture. So there's an ad for going back and listening to the old episodes of the show. With that you can find I think, up to episode, or no, I'm sorry, back to episode like, 250 ish on the YouTubes. We didn't start doing YouTube show until 2021. I think it was. So if you want to catch those old old episodes, like we're going back, way back into the time machine, right. 2018 2019. And yes, the beginning of 2020 Oh, all the way through 2020. During the beginning of the pandemic, you got to go through and check out the episodes via podcasts. So Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube music, I like podcast addict wherever you go ahead and get your podcasts. Go ahead. Check out all those old episodes in the archives. And I did mention Yes, we are in video, YouTube rumble Twitter x.er, which is now x.com. And Facebook, we upload our video content there. So yes, please go ahead and give us some love before I thank our sponsors. Caleb, any last words for the audience today? I just took a month of monopoly, a monologue of a monopoly. Any last thoughts here for the audience's wrap things up?

Speaker 1  34:08  
Well, thanks again, Brian. It's been great. And yeah, just please go out and and preorder the book that's going to help so much and the sales which I know that you know all about so

Brian Nichols  34:22  
my world. So yeah,

Speaker 1  34:23  
thank thanks so much. And if anyone has any questions, please reach out. Yes,

Brian Nichols  34:29  
I can't agree more. Alright folks. With that being said one final plug in that is to thank the folks who support us and that is our phenomenal sponsors. So please go ahead and support them because yes, they are the ones who help us keep the lights on and have amazing conversations with folks like Caleb so our amazing sponsors include cardio miracle the wellness company in the Emporium with their brand new Michael Scott 2024 40 day plan and then we are back in business t shirt. We also have some of the old classic sponsors like evil CBD blood of tyrants wine liquid freedom energy t plus we have our good friends over at the proud libertarian shop use CO. T BNS at the shop for 15% off any order. Alright, that's all we have for you. Brian Nichols signing off here in The Brian Nichols Show for our good buddy Caleb friends. We'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai