794: Selling Below the Surface - Navigating Hidden Buying Motivators Beneath the Surface

Brian Nichols  0:28  
What if everything you thought you knew about sales was just the tip of the iceberg? Well, today's guest says transforming sales requires embracing the depth below the surface, arguing that masterful selling connects us to powerful human truths that typical tactics never reach. And his brand new book guides us below the waterline to realize the incredible potential lying just beneath. So let's talk about that. Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Well, hey there, folks, Brian Nichols here on The Brian Nichols Show. Thank you for joining us on of course, another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host. Joining you live from our cardio miracle Studios here in lovely, lovely Eastern Indiana folks make your heart happy this holiday season, and your body happy along the way with cardio miracle, nitric oxide boost fuels, circulation and energy, lower your blood pressure plus fatigue and your overall sense of dread because yes, it will help improve your anxiety as well. The Vitality boost you've waited is here, get your cardio miracle today at Brian Nichols show.com forward slash heart link in the show notes as well as in the video description. Use code TB and S for 15% off your order and join the 10s of 1000s who are improving their heart health overnight by taking cardio miracle. And by the way, there's 100% money back guarantee. So you quite literally have nothing to lose, except for that high blood pressure and sleepless nights. So one more time cardio miracle start your heart health journey today. All right, let's dig below that waterline. And yes, because it is, in fact the tip of the iceberg. Joining us here on The Brian Nichols Show today to talk about his brand new book iceberg selling Carl Becker welcome The Brian Nichols

Karl Becker  2:28  
Show. Hey, thanks. Yeah, I love the energy. I mean, you're right so much I think of our life when we're going through everything. We only see 10% Yet we want to have the conversation that's 100%, right? We want to bring our ideas what we're passionate about forward. But if that other person is only showing us 10% of where they are, boy, that's challenge and sales. And that's why I came up with iceberg selling like let's learn to see what's underneath and meet people where they are helped help understand where they are so that we can meet them have the conversations, we want to have an in sales. It's about being of service, right? It's about that solution about being a guide to move them forward. Something so thank you for the introduction. I really appreciate it. Absolutely.

Brian Nichols  3:04  
I love that you said that the catchphrase for the show meet people where they're at right and on those issues they care about this is true in politics. It's true when we're talking about solutions to the problems we see in our world. And yet, it's true in the world of business as well, Carl, so I'm really looking forward to digging into things today. Now, for folks who are longtime listeners to The Brian Nichols Show, they know that I'm in the world of sales. I'm a sales coach. I'm a sales executive. And I lead sales teams. And this is stuff that I literally am talking about with my team every single day. And part of the whole advent of the show was to bring that sales and marketing acumen we know works in the business world, bring it to the world of public policy, and specifically addressing the problems we see in our world with solutions we can bring to the table and hopefully air quotes on the word sell but sell it to a an electorate or in this case, a voter base. So with that, Carl, I really want to dig into this idea of iceberg selling so before we kind of go into how you can utilize the tactics and tools that are outlined in your book. Let's kind of set the stage How did you get to the point in your sales journey where you said you know what, this this old way of of sales, whether it was in the band or band scene, Medic, Sandler, whatever different, you know, different style of sales that there is out there. This just isn't cutting it for our world today. And then you brought in Iceberg song. So how do we get to the point where you're you're making this brand new sales methodology? Yeah,

Karl Becker  4:29  
so I appreciate the opportunity to share it like so often when I talk and sometimes I get in my head, oh, man, this guy talks too much. But I'm gonna start the story actually kind of in an origin story and then fast forward to where we are today. Who as I became a parent, my kids grew up I have two high schoolers now. You know, we learn through our kids eyes, right? And a lot of times they reflect back, kind of glimmers of when we were a kid. I think we've got to share human experience and so much I think of like, selling and connecting, connecting with People is understanding we have shared human experiences. At the end of the day, we have so much common DNA together, right? So one day, my, my, my youngest son is in like third or fourth grade at that time he comes home, we have this conversation. And there's kind of this on the table like, is there? Is there some learning disability, what's going on? And so we started to get a coach and some kind of instructors to look into that, sure enough, he starts to find that he's dyslexic. And as he sharing these things with me, it's like, oh, my god, that was me growing up, I had the same challenges learning, growing up, like it just I just did. And so when I started to kind of look back at when I was a kid, what did I do to cope, what I do to get around it, I had to get really good at learning. From what I saw what I heard what I experienced, because with dyslexia, reading books was very challenging for me to read, it was a slow reader, and then take it and process it. So I think I kind of like, became the salesperson early on, because I was always trying to understand other people. Other things. It's kind of almost like a survival tactic. So fast forward, you know, my entire life. I've been an entrepreneur, I've run companies, I've come in, I've built sales organizations, and a ton of companies. I do coaching, I do keynoting. But it all has the same thing in common of like, how do we really bring out the best in teams and individuals. And so I started to kind of realize that when I was coaching, a lot of times, I would say, hey, salesperson that I'm coaching, just be of service, you know, go the extra mile, like really understand this person, and some people would get in others would look at me like, I don't know what that means. Well, I appreciated that they felt safe enough to share that with me. And so I've written three books, this iceberg selling is my last one. And it's my favorite book by far. But the reason I wrote it is I started to realize that many of the people I talked with around sales and connecting and helping people find what's below the surface and really understand some of them before they bring forward an idea was missing. It wasn't a skill that we knew, because we're so used to like you said band, the bottom of the funnel, let's close the deal. Let's overcome objections, let's persuade, there's like, whoa, whoa, when I've been successful, my career, it's about understanding co creating, listening, making sure we agree to the next step. And so as I started to write this book, it's really written like I'm talking right now, I was like, This is it, this will help people understand others better. And when we understand others better, we can be more effective in communicating or moving it forward or guiding them or whatever it be. So that's kind of the backstory.

Brian Nichols  7:31  
I love it. I love it. Because when I first started in the world of sales, I had a sales manager, I'm not gonna say his name, because I like him. He's a good person, but totally stuck in 1990 sales, which is fine, right? Like, if that worked for you, then that's great. But times change. And you know, as the buyer becomes more and more educated in the different solutions that are available to them, they don't need you to do this, you know, feature and benefit dump, they don't need the facts and figures, they and frankly, this might hurt for some folks to hear. They don't care about you, they don't care about your company, they don't want to go through your your 10 page PowerPoint, highlighting how great you are, and all the different customers you have. They're not they're not focused on that what they're focused on. And Carl, if I'm wrong, tell me but they're focused on the Hey, I have a problem. And I need this problem solved. Now, not everybody has a problem that your solution console, and vice versa. Not every problem that's out there is something your solution can go ahead and inherently fix. So we have to not only better understand our specific value add to helping address these problems. But Carl then going to and this is my sales methodology that I've been building is the elephant in the room, my elephant in the room approach and that is not every person is a potential buyer, we need to better understand who is our ICP? Who is our ideal customer persona. And when that who is then in the ICP in a buying opportunity, can you kind of walk through ways in Iceberg selling that you've been able to more effectively identify who those people are in that buying opportunity for us?

Karl Becker  9:18  
Yeah, sure. First, I'm going to kind of frame up a couple of things, just just really briefly to give a little bit of context. So the whole concept here is, everything's an iceberg, including you. You are an iceberg. I'm an iceberg. Are companies an iceberg, the person we're talking to is an iceberg, their company, their problem, like we just never know what's going on in these people's lives, and they don't know what's going on in ours. So I like to kind of frame it first of like, Hey, before we start talking about you as a salesperson and bringing solutions, you know, What's your why? Why are you even doing this like get connected with what fills you up? Because in sales, you know, we are putting ourselves out there every day. And we're, we're expending a ton of energy for doing it right to really learn about people. And that can be researched before it could be in the call, it could be in the conversation. And then, you know, the discipline to continue to follow up and to stay curious, right? So I always feel like we need to figure out a way to recharge our batteries all the time. And for me, it's like, why am I doing this in the first place? You know, so if you're in someone in sales, or you're a leader, you're just like, you're passionate about bringing an idea forward, reconnect with like, What's your why, what and I say, what are we playing for? So once we do that, I think that kind of reframes that if we're really playing, to be of service to connect, to share our ideas, then all of a sudden, I think we could take the jump of faith that we're not in a bunch of sprints, every person we meet, it's not a sprint to the finish line. What if it's a marathon? What if it's this, you know, how do I spend time to really understand them, they understand me, so that when we get toward the end of the marathon, we're actually finishing the crossing the finish line together. So what does that mean for ICP? It means at certain times of this journey, when we learn, we have to be comfortable taking the off ramp, we have to be comfortable saying, You know what, I'm never going to change their mind. Or I'm never, you know, this is not the best solution. This is not of service to them. And oh, by the way, some service to my team, either. I mean, nobody wants to, like sell the dream, and then have your team service the nightmare, right? Like, we just don't want that. Right. If we're good teammates, we don't want that. So you know, before I tell you like all the steps, I would just say there's a reframing from the beginning to say it's okay, to get clarity for yourself. And for the person you're talking to. Yeah,

Brian Nichols  11:36  
we had Tim Walker on the show, I think last year, it was at this point, and he's, you know, a great, great friend and a sales coach, and we actually talked about this, you know, no, is sometimes the best, the best answer you can get. Because you can then dig into the know, is it as strong? No, is it as we used to call him when I was great that I was a sales guy in Philly for a while. So we were a little bit more crass? And we had it called an F F o a firm f off? Or is it a just not right now? Right? And that gives you as a salesperson context to better understand, am I missing the mark in terms of aligning our value? Or is it simply just not a good time right now is it you know, there might be something going on, I'll give you a real life example, going through my company right now that I worked with. And we're doing a complete tech stack replace, and I had a sales guy who they had reached out to me, you know, great salesperson, they weren't, they were communicative. They weren't, they were staying in contact with me. And yet, then they ended up going way too, too hard. They were way too aggressive, trying to push a solution, and ended up from a budgeting standpoint, we didn't have the funds that we need it and it's like, Hey, listen, love your solution. It just, we can't make this work right now. And then they get on pushing. And I was like, Okay, I'm sorry. Like, it's just not gonna work, right. And they took a good opportunity. And they got rid of it, because they were just not listening. And they were like, I need my sale, I need my sale. And they were sprinting, as you said, versus looking at this as a long term relationship. And truly a marathon. I love that you framed it that way. It's

Karl Becker  13:06  
you hit the first mindset of the book, and is it is lifetime value, it is called for the lifetime value. And I think a lot of times, whether it's because of our sales manager, or in our head, or what we've seen in the movies, it's like, you know, sign on the dotted line, you know, like, you got to make it happen. You know, I guess I feel like if these were friendships, and you just met somebody, and you said, so are we going to be friends or not? Right? They're going to be like, Oh, my God, this guy's nuts. No. So like, in the world of sales, I feel like, it is a where it can be an always ever it. Unless it's a like you said a no, no, no, no, never. There's always an opportunity. You know, people change companies, budgets, unlock people get promoted, your solution changes. So don't you want to always have a bridge and a door open. And by

Brian Nichols  13:54  
the way car, I don't mean to interrupt, but that's literally the topic of this book shift selling we had our good buddy Craig Elias, in the show a couple years ago, trigger events, right, like things change, and that's okay.

Karl Becker  14:06  
Absolutely. And so if if you just realize all the things that changing your life from one year to the next, and if you even just say your kids, your family, your spouse, your partner, things like that. Now imagine how much more amplified that gets, if it's an organization. So I always want to say, you know, we're we're playing for lifetime value. We're playing for long relationships and the second mindsets, kind of talking about what you're talking about to it's like, always being of service like, what's this other thing that I can do to provide service and caring to this person other than just Hey, you ready to buy? It's the end the month here's a discount, you know? And did you get my email like, that's, that's not a service and quite frankly, I don't know a salesperson in the world that wants to leave the check in voicemail or the check in email. Did you get my quote? Do you have any questions? So for me, you know, again, some of this before we go into the steps of iceberg selling, it's like, let's get ourselves All right, let's get those mindsets solid so that when we go into these conversations, we're ready to go. Yep.

Brian Nichols  15:05  
Amen. Amen. Well, Carl, and I got my camera. But one of the things that that drives me crazy just absolutely drives me up a wall is when I'm talking to a salesperson. And I start asking them some not like the basics that they should understand, but really just like the contextual stuff like, Hey, who is the champion? And who are the other people in the buying committee? What are the main drivers? What's their timeline? Why are they looking at this solution. And I sometimes will get like this deer in the headlights look, and I'm like, Wait, you're not even focused on what the customer needs, you're focused on to your point earlier, hitting that, you know that that, that end of the month, or end of the quarter deadline you're trying to get this deal in, because maybe it's been a rough month, all these things that you're focused on, versus what does the customer actually care about. And those things are so important, because as you get towards the end of the conversation of the deal cycle, you're not trying to toss out here at a discount, here's, you know, here's some extra bonuses and stuff, you're instead being able to more effectively and articulately address the real concerns, the real root causes of the pain of the problem. And then as you're going towards that final closing of the deal, which it really never is a closed deal, right? It's just more of now we're going to the next step onboarding, implementation, whatever that may be, and the process keeps going. But you need that firm foundation to build upon.

Karl Becker  16:30  
I agree. And you know, one of the things I do oftentimes when I've run into teams, and I'm like managing the sales team, or acting as a co pilot, whatever I'm doing, all I'm trying to say is like, we're having a conversation on a one to one basis with a salesperson, and we're reviewing their funnel, and it could be all the different stages their funnel, but I'll get to these deals, and I'll say, you know, tell me about their world. And you're right, sometimes it's like, What do you mean, we're gonna, I think we're gonna close it this quarter. It's like, that's not answering the question. Tell me about their world. And if if we can't answer that question, then it starts to kind of, I think, open the door that maybe we don't know as much as we think about them and their situation. So therefore, did we even get the solution? Right? Right. And so to me, that's the whole premise of iceberg selling is, is the more we learn, and we build rapport, and we co create together, we can get to all those things in a second. But but but just the basic ideas, the more you understand, you've not only de risked yourself, but you have more clarity that this is right, right, fit right time, right solution, versus a guess. And I think that's where a lot of times as salespeople or sales managers, we get stuck, because because we can't answer those questions. It's almost like if it was a board game, you know, we have to like go back 10 spaces, Chutes and Ladders, like, we got to go back 10 spaces and start again, if we really want to up our game, we really want to go from good

Brian Nichols  17:49  
to great. So there's a lot of folks who are in the audience, and maybe they're hearing this, like, Okay, this is starting to make sense. But this is all new to me, right? Carl, it's a little overwhelming, maybe this is a little, you know too much, and how to eat the elephant, one bite at a time, if it is too big of a bite to try and digest all at once. So for those folks who are new in this world of sales, or you're trying to bridge the world of understanding that everything in life is sales, you're selling yourself an idea, a product, a service, your politics, whatever it may be, but what would be some starting off things that you recommend to an entry level person in this world to be an effective communicator in the world of sales? A little bit.

Karl Becker  18:27  
So, you know, first, I would say, in the book iceberg selling, there's five best practices, and it's almost like steps are a lifecycle from the time we meet someone to the time we move forward. So I'm going to follow those five steps, and just kind of paint a picture, I might tell a couple stories. So the first thing I would tell you is do the research. And what I mean by that is a new opportunity comes to you there's somebody you're going to meet, maybe you met him very briefly, maybe it came in digitally, it's in your inbox marketing generated for generating the lead for you, whatever it might be, there's an opportunity to begin a conversation. And for that part, I would say do the research. And what do I mean? I mean, spend 510 15 minutes, not a gazillion hours. But what do we know about them? What is obvious what is on the surface? I'll give you a very simple example. My father recently turned 80. And if I wanted to plan a surprise birthday party for him, there's a couple of really simple things that I could consider, right? Number one, if all his friends are probably 70 to 90, I'm not going to have the party at night, right? We know this our grandparents or older parents, they don't want to drive at night, they can't see as well. I'm probably not going to have it as a restaurant that has huge stairs because a lot of my dad's friends might not have a ton of mobility, right? But you can kind of go through this checklist of like, what do I already know about my father or the lead or whoever is at this point in time? That allows me to do the research, right just just to begin with some knowledge. So for me, the first step is you that research?

Brian Nichols  20:00  
I love it. No. Yeah, sorry. Keep going. I just want a really quick, Carl, that is one of the parts that's missing so much in sales is doing the research I'm sorry to interrupt, but like, I just want to emphasize and how important that piece of this puzzle is because so many folks, like I've gotten cold calls, and they think I'm a decision maker for something I don't even deal with. And they're just going on their sales pitch. And I'm like, my man, this isn't my world. So just thank you for pointing that out. Continue. I'm sorry. No,

Karl Becker  20:30  
but it's true. And if you want to know, you know, well, why would you really do that, Carl, first of all, if your competitors aren't doing it, and you are, that's advantage. Second of all, I don't know about you. But I like to show up as a professional, I want that other person to recognize me immediately as someone that is intentional about my time and the value that I create. I've got clients that are in the live event business. And I was talking to this one sales guy this one time, and he had gotten a lead. And I'm over here, and he's kind of telling me the story. He's like, Well, the first thing I asked is when they're when is their event, and where is it? And I was like Joe, that's on their website. Like that's almost embarrassing, right? Like, Hey, do you do events? Yeah, of course, I do events. That's why we're talking Well, When's our event, it's in March. And in Arizona, it's on our website, like, all of a sudden, that person starting at a disadvantage, right? The second one is really setting yourself up for success. And what I mean by that is, when you do have this meeting, you're the guide, I really want you to think about being the driver of this meeting, you're not the passenger. And so there's a mindset of saying, if I'm the driver of this meeting, I have the ability to, to architect it right. So what I typically tell people is, hey, you know, Brian, I appreciate you spending some time with me, do we still have 30 minutes? Hopefully you say, Yes, I go great. So what I thought we could do is learn a little bit about you, what you're looking for what your life's like, what's it like at work? And if you found the right solution, what would it do for you? What would it cost make happen. And then what I'd like to do is share a little bit about my company and our solutions and how I work. And then if that, if that's still working for you, I'd like to start to reflect back to make sure I understood everything. And then from there, I'd like to kind of get into conversation. Let's brainstorm a little bit about what it can look like if we work together, you know, timing, solution, whatever it might be. And then from there, Brian, if it makes sense, let's talk about how we would move forward if it makes sense. And if not, I'll tell you I might not be the right fit. Could we do that today? And I gotta tell you, everyone relaxes because now it's clear. There's no smoke and mirrors, there's no Boogeyman. There's no gotcha, I know where you're going to take me. So just setting us up to be successful in any conversation. But in sales. Big next step. That's kind of my number two step.

Brian Nichols  22:41  
I love it. Well, Carl, we're getting towards the tail end of the conversation here it goes fast. But I like to do a little segment we do at the end of the episodes called Final thoughts, and I'll kick things off your mind, then I'll turn it over to you. But one of the things as we've been going through this today, it just kind of strikes me as So, so blatantly obvious. And yet, again, kind of elephant in the room people just don't talk about and that is if if you implement the Golden Rule into your selling, like treating people the way you want to be treated, I guarantee you're going to have a better sales experience as the seller than not. Because if you think about how do I buy, like as as a person going out and finding a service or a product that you're going to go ahead and purchase? What's the steps that you're checking off, to move forward in the process, the same steps are likely being checked off by your customer. So it's important to meet them where they're at to be a real, like human being like asking them genuine driving questions that matter to them, not things that you think they should care about, but things they actually care about. And yes, start at the tip of that iceberg and work down, understand the context behind the whys understand the the groundwork that you're building upon in order to move this sale forward. So I think you know, it really just comes down to really treating others the way you want to be treated, don't don't really bend over backwards trying to think of different ways to restructure this. That's what it comes down to. So I guess that's my final thoughts for today. Carl, what do you have first, on your end?

Karl Becker  24:14  
Yeah, I think that's right, you know, and the other thing along those lines is, I think I would just encourage everyone to think about a conversation or a sales call as a journey, right. And I think a lot of times when we're selling, we think everybody, that our that our journey starting at the end that were that are turning starting, where they're ready to buy, that that conversation is at the place where they want to hear what we have to say in and sell or communicate or close them or whatever. And I would just encourage you, kind of like what you said, Brian, like oftentimes, that journey is not that far along. So not only the golden rule, but understanding where somebody is and just kind of their consideration of what's going on in their life allows you to meet them there and have the conversation that's most appropriate there. And so it might be about curiosity, and just kind of asking more why question Johnson saying I'm really curious, I love and learn a little bit more. And as you do that you build rapport and from rapport is understanding, and trust. And once you have that bringing a solution for it makes a ton of sense. So I am 100% aligned with what you're saying, Carl

Brian Nichols  25:13  
Becker, this has been a great conversation, and I have a feeling it's part one, have a conversation because I have a feeling we're gonna have you back on the show to dig a little bit deeper down the road. But with that being said, obviously, I want this to be a conversation that not only folks you know, put in a bookmark and come back to because this is one of those evergreen episodes, but I want folks to be able to go out get iceberg selling just came back. I came out here in October, I believe it was so it's available the purchase Now, folks, Carl, we're gonna go ahead and do that.

Karl Becker  25:44  
That'd be great. Go to iceberg selling.com. You can learn all about it. There's a audible digital and you can get the book as well.

Brian Nichols  25:52  
I love it easy enough. And Carl, where can folks go ahead if they want to find you on social media to continue the conversation? Where do they go ahead and do that? Yeah,

Karl Becker  26:00  
the simplest would be my primary website is improving sales performance.com. I'm on LinkedIn. If you type in Carl Becker, Carl Becker or sales consultant, whatnot, you will find me I spend most of my my kind of social media and airing podcasts and kind of thought leadership on LinkedIn. Hopefully you can find me Carl Becker, I am proving sales performance.com I've got all my socials there and all the different ways to reach out and I always respond so if you want to get in the conversation, fill out the form and and we can kind of start that conversation but thank you absolutely

Brian Nichols  26:31  
iceberg selling Yes, we will include all those links in the show notes. And folks, if you enjoyed today's episode, which I know you did, go ahead, give it a share. We do tan yours truly at be Nichols liberty, you can find me on Facebook, as well as over on x.com. And where can you find the show where you found us somewhere. But if you want to share today's episode with your friends and family, maybe you want to share the video version of the show? Well first of all, head over to YouTube rumble wherever it is get your video content, hit subscribe, hit that little notification bell so you don't miss a single time we have an episode air and also hit that like button it helps us reach more people in their news feeds. And then also we upload our entire episodes to x.com. So make sure you go over there and check us out and then one other place we air our video is over on sovereign es OVR en Ben Swan, great friend of the show. And he does a great work in the investigative journalism space. He created a brand new entity called Sovereign which is a great independent media entity. And if you're seeing this over on Sovereign Well, congratulations, you're seeing today's episode before anybody else that's your sovereign exclusive. And, of course over on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube music, wherever it is. You download podcasts, you can find The Brian Nichols Show, all I ask is hit that subscribe button. And of course, download all unplayed episodes because we have so many awesome conversations with some sales pros like Carl, we had Tim Walker on the show we had Craig Elias in the show art subject. Let's see who else we have Lee Sol's I have other books behind me too. So we've had a lot of great sales guys here in the show. So if you want to go ahead and check out some of those great conversations all over at Brian Nichols, show.com, almost 800 episodes in total. So go ahead and dig through there. I promise at least a few of them will leave you educated, enlightened and informed. With that being said Brian Nichols signing off here for Carl Becker. Any final thoughts today, Carl, before we wrap things up, I

Karl Becker  28:19  
just love that you want everyone to meet people where they are and help them understand others before they move forward. I think that's super powerful. I

Brian Nichols  28:27  
can't agree more. And I can't agree more that iceberg selling is so important in order to actually understand the real why in terms of why people buy so yes, folks, please go ahead and purchase iceberg selling but with that being said, it's Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show for Carl Becker. We'll see you next time. All righty, we are

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