765: JAB or JOB? - Your Legal Rights Against Forced Vaccination at Work

Brian Nichols  
Three and a half years later, and some of us are still looking around wondering what happened. And if you were one of the folks out there who felt forced compelled or if your employer mandated that you take the jab. Well, today's episode is for you. So with that being said, let's talk about that. Instead of focusing on winning arguments. We're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Well, hey there, folks, Brian Nichols, here on The Brian Nichols Show. And thank you for joining us on of course, another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host. Joining you live from our cardio miracle Studios here in lovely Eastern Indiana want to improve your heart health in truly like no time at all. We'll stick around. We're gonna talk about that later. But first, we're going to talk about what you should do. If you were one of the millions of Americans out there who was either forced or rather felt compelled to take that jab, I have a thing that we're not going to get into too much detail because we don't want to get axed on every platform that we are airing today. Which with that being said, By the way, we aren't on independent media. So if you want to support us there, today is the day to do that. But to help me dig into this conversation, someone who's actually living in this legal world dealing with the jab conversations on the frequent one that Ben Carlisle thank you for returning here to The Brian Nichols Show, as we tread ever so carefully.

Ben Carlisle  
Thanks for having me, Brian, and I will be as delicate with my words as possible to make sure you don't get any social media trouble.

Brian Nichols  
Oh, no, man, it's okay. You know, it's so sad that this is where we are like, as a society that we have to temper our words so carefully, because we're afraid that if you say just one wrong thing about, uh, pretty much like it's just, it's what's happening. It's real life. You're gonna explain about this in more detail later. But like, that is worthy of censorship, right, that you could have your entire accounts just nuked like that. That's just kind of shocking to me, right, that we're at that point here in 2023. I guess for all those conspiracy theorists back in like the 27 teens who are like censorships common Well, I guess they are kind of right. But it's a conversation for a different day, Ben, this is your second time here on the program. I think last time we talked into some more of the specifics of people who when they were actually harmed by that after mention Jad. But now we're talking about digging into some of the world of what what if you were compelled, you know, by your employer, but before we are not rather compelled, if you were kind of nudged by your employer to to do that. But before we do that, do us a favor for the folks who did not catch you on our first episode, reintroduce yourself here to the audience and kind of what's been your focus in the legal world as we're talking about the the jab today.

Ben Carlisle  
So my name is Ben Carlisle, I'm an attorney. My practice is in New York. So that's, that's where I'm focused. I did for a good 13 years, my my focus was workers comp, defense. So I represented the employers and the insurance companies, then COVID started and saw our civil liberties slipping away. So I took a little break from the practice, I actually ran for office in New York trying to fight the good fight, trying to fight against mandates trying to fighting idiotic things like defunding the police didn't exactly win, but I think, you know, made made some good points, was able to avoid one candidate in in Buffalo, that would have been a disaster. So, you know, after, after those, you know, dabbling in politics, I decided to go back to the practice a lot. And I didn't want to just go back and be in the office and just do the same thing representing insurance companies for us in my life. So I decided to open up my own practice, and I decided to stick keep focusing on workers comp, but instead of representing insurance companies and the employers to instead represent the injured workers. And the reason I did that is because, you know, everyone's been told or they think, you know, if I got injured by one of these vaccines, whether it's Maderna, Johnson and Johnson, Pfizer, you can't sue them directly if you were injured, and people felt like they didn't really have any recourse but one of the recourses that is available as if, Brian, as you mentioned in your intro, if you were mandated to take the shot, or and we can go into this in more detail, but even if you were just encouraged or pressured to get the shot, and you were injured, you do have potentially recourse under workers compensation law. So that's what I've been focusing on for about the last year and a half just trying to find some modicum of justice for people who, you know, people who felt like they really had no option but to take that shot in order to keep providing food for their family to keep their healthcare benefits, et cetera, et cetera. So that's, that's what I've been doing.

Brian Nichols  
That second one man, that's that's where they got people, right the the the feeling that you needed to get this by your your your employer not necessarily maybe mandating it but strongly, strongly implying that, you know, the worst case scenarios could happen, right? Like, we don't want to shut our doors because we can't service our customers because people aren't getting the job like, you know, hint, hint, nod nod if you don't take this action, what could really happen, and it's not just your job, it's everyone's job. And that was the fear tactics that we saw that took place from 2020 to today. And I say today, because it's kind of comeback, right? We're seeing right now this conversation reared its ugly head, which is actually perfect timing to have you back on here on the show, Ben, because right now we're seeing the Biden administration, starting to promote a new jab, a one, a stronger jab, one that is more powerful, too. And apparently one that Biden claims. This one will work, which I think he said in 2021, about another jab, I could be wrong. But maybe the science changed. I don't know, the rules of seemingly either changed or just didn't exist for the past three and a half years. I'm still trying to play catch up. So yeah, that's gonna be interesting, then. But talk to us about that. That kind of caveat, right? Not the mandated by the employer, but strongly encouraged. What's the legal argument that you're seeing kind of shape up here as you're going down this pathway?

Ben Carlisle  
Well, let me just tell people first, if you're concerned about whether you have a case, if it's mandated, that's pretty clear cut now, because the initial cases that were filed in New York, claiming, okay, this person was mandated by their employer to take the shot, they got injured, whether or not that would be a workers compensation case. Well, a lot of the employers were fighting those cases saying, hey, wait a second, the government made us mandate. And obviously, not all mandates came from the government, a lot of employers just independently decided they wanted to mandate the shot. But especially in the setting of health care. A lot of employers felt like, hey, you know, but for this government mandate, we wouldn't have mandated our employees that take it. And you know, the government made us mandate it. So it shouldn't be worker's comp, well, the Workers Compensation Board, at least in New York has come back and said, No, it doesn't really matter what your reason was for requiring your employees to take it if your employee was required to take it, that's within the course and scope of employment. That's the legal term in New York, and it's pretty much the same, all in all 50 jurisdiction, so nope, it doesn't really matter why you took the choice to make your employees take the shot, if they were made to take it that's cut and dry, open and shut. That's a workers compensation case if the vaccine injured them. So now we're starting to look into another avenue of justice for people. And this is people who didn't have their employers necessarily mandate, it didn't condition employment, didn't say we're going to fire you if you don't take it, but they highly encouraged them to take it, they provided incentives for them to take it, whether it's gift cards, or free movie tickets, or I'm dealing with a case right now, where the incentive was, if enough employees take this shot, I'll let everyone take their masks off. But until then, you have to wear your mask every day. So there's some prior case law with the influenza vaccine. Going back, you know, several years in New York, where, you know, in the setting of healthcare, employers would say, All right, we can't make you take this flu vaccine. But if you take it again, you don't have to wear your mask during flu season, providing bunch of other incentives, putting, you know, bulletin boards with, you know, stuff information all over the place, just constantly reinforcing it. So and there's there's winning case law on that if if the employer encourages it, if the employer derives a benefit, if the employer incentivizes it, if the employer pressures it, if you show enough of those things, then you can show that, yes, if the person took that shot, after all that pressure, after all that incentivization, then you can show that the person took that shot within the course and scope of their employment. And then if they were injured, potentially, we can get those people benefits as well. So those cases that I'm litigating right now are all in their infancy. So it's kind of going to take another six months to a year to see if we're actually going to win these cases. But I feel very strongly that the like I said, the case law with the influenza vaccine to me, it's extremely similar to what the pressure that people were dealing with currently to get the shot. Again, not necessarily mandated, but highly pressured. So I want people to know that it's not a slam dunk. It's not a guarantee. But that's potentially another avenue of justice. If you felt like you were mandated, pressured, incentivized, I think we can get you benefits as well.

Brian Nichols  
Now, we are going to dig into the question that I think a lot of folks are likely wondering, especially for the folks in the audience who experienced this firsthand and that is, well what if I I lost my job for saying no to this or saying no to the very strong implications on my job, just how happen to be your last along the way. But before we get your answer, Ben, go ahead and give a shout out to today's sponsor and that is cardio miracle. Do you want to take control of your heart health and start living a healthier, more energetic life? Well, let me introduce you to cardio miracle, the natural supplement designed to support optimal heart function. Cardio miracle contains a unique blend of ingredients that work together to increase nitric oxide levels in your blood. Okay, Brian, what does that mean? Nitric oxide helps relax and open up your blood vessels. So that leads to better circulation, lower blood pressure, yes, please, and reduces inflammation and most importantly, it protects your heart and powers your body with natural energy and the benefits don't stop there. With cardio miracle you're going to enjoy better sleep, which I haven't been experiencing. I gotta tell you that has been one of the best things has been the better sleep quality, which has had me which will have you feeling like you're going to wake up feeling refreshed and saying goodbye to that daily fatigue. This supplement provides your body with the mind in Amstar your body and your mind that is with the support they need for peak performance. And if you want to experience the cardio miracle difference, well, it's very simple head to cardio miracle.com and simply use the code TB and s at disk at checkout to get an exclusive 15% discount off your purchase as a member of The Brian Nichols Show audience, which means you can join the 1000s of other folks out there who have unlocked healthier hearts with cardio miracle. So don't wait order now save big and embark on your journey to better heart health. Your heart will in fact Thank you cardio miracle.com code TBNS at checkout for 15% off your order 53 Whole Foods bioavailable nutrients delivered in one serving that is incredibly convenient. Yes, it is affordable. And oh, did I mention there is a 100% money back guarantee. So you quite literally have nothing to lose cardio miracle.com code TBS at checkout, or simply click the link in your podcast description. In your podcast player today, it'll bring you right over to the cardio miracle.com website with the affiliate link attached. Meaning you don't have to have a hit a button. It's going to be applied right there at checkout for you when you go to the checkout screen. So cardio miracle.com folks start your better health heart health journey today. All right, then let's dig into Yes, the question I teased before I talked about heart health. And that is what about those folks out there who they over the past three and a half years have faced by just on imaginable struggles in dealing with the the outcomes here of you know, the the mandates and that is one of the things losing your job. So for those folks out there, what's kind of your best plan of recourse that they can take.

Ben Carlisle  
Unfortunately, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's not looking good for those people. I think we've seen some success with employers that violated collection bargaining collective bargaining agreements. So if there was a collective bargaining agreement in place, and the employee had to go through all these different steps before they terminate an employee, and they didn't follow those steps, and they just said, Nope, you didn't take the job. We're firing you. Those people. I think, for instance, municipal workers in New York, they fell under that category where Mayor Adams violated their collective bargaining agreement fired them they all got their jobs back with back pay. But for for regular just at will employees who didn't have those protections in place. I haven't seen them being successful yet. I can tell you, my wife was one of those people who lost their job because of the mandate. We were living in New York at the time, my wife's a health care worker, her hospital required everyone to take it. The governor in New York took away basically all medical exemptions, the only medical exemption that was being honored in New York is if you took the first shot and injured you, you didn't have to take the second shot, but there was really no way around the first shot or governor New York took away religious exemptions. So my wife's employer, you know, wouldn't grant either and she lost her job, we had to move to Florida for her to find another job. Now I'm, you know, representing clients remotely from down here in Florida for my New York clients. So I know there's people still try my wife and I we joined a lawsuit to try to block that action to try to get her job back. We were not successful. So again, I if you find yourself in that category, keep trying, you know, maybe eventually someone's going to going to be successful in this area. But the only the only successes I've seen are employers that violated collective bargaining agreements.

Brian Nichols  
Interested that stinks. Man, that really stinks. You You think that'd be the easiest route to go? But I guess that's not the case. It's more of the worker's comp case where people actually did get hurt that seem more accurate there.

Ben Carlisle  
Pretty much. Yeah. I mean, especially in the context of, of the health care workers, you know, went all the way to the Supreme Court. And unfortunately, the Supreme Court upheld the CMS mandate that said, yeah, the government can require every single health care worker to take the jab. But one thing people don't quite realize about the CMS mandate is that the government's the federal government actually has pretty broad exemptions to the federal mandate, they allow for medical exemptions that the federal mandate allows for religious exemptions. So what you have to do is what my wife did, you have to find an employer that actually allows for the CMS exemptions that are federally in place, but a lot of places would say, well, yep, the you know, the federal government will allow us to allow a religious exemption that will allow us to allow a medical exemption, but we're not going to do that. And you're still, there's even in red states, there's still hospital systems that will not hire people, unless you've taken the job, they don't care about your religious exemption, they don't care about your medical exemption, they don't care about the fact that it doesn't stop transmission. They don't care about the fact that it doesn't stop infection, they don't care about the fact that it's injured millions of people, they just don't care. So yeah, I wish I had better news in that regard. But basically, the only thing you win is, you know, you've got your integrity intact. But, and I don't even want to say that flippantly because I know so many people, and I represent them every single day, they really didn't have a choice. You know, I'm an attorney, my wife's a doctor, we don't have any kids. It wasn't easy up rooting and moving 1800 miles away to find another job. But we could do it. It was feasible. So many people didn't have that choice. They couldn't go, you know, one week without a paycheck, let alone two or three months without a paycheck. While you, you know, get resetted we had to rent another house. So you know, for a time for almost a year, we were paying a mortgage in New York and renting a house in Florida. My wife every time she for the first year my wife was, you know, going back and forth to New York. So you're for that year, we're renting a second house, we're renting a car every time she's down in, in Florida. So yeah, it was possible to say yeah, I'm just not going to take the mandated shot, I'm gonna go find employment elsewhere. But it was a decision that cost us 10s of 1000s of dollars required us to uproot, our family required us to move away from family and friends. So sure, no one put a gun to your head, no one made you do it. So I, I don't want to sound like I don't have sympathy for people who felt like they had no other choice. Because I know, a lot of people and again, I represent them every day who lives with genuinely felt like they had no other choice. It just wasn't an option to, to, to, to, um, what's the word I'm looking forward to just stand on principle, you know, because standing on principle and bankrupting your family and starving your children really doesn't get you that far. So that's the boat, you know, a lot of people found themselves in? Well,

Brian Nichols  
and I guess this kind of begs the question then, like, what can we do for those folks? Because Because that exposes a very real flaw in the system. Is it really a flaw? It's just the reality of the system, I guess. Like, we have so many people who live paycheck to paycheck if that. And they were put into position, as you so eloquently articulated, where they didn't have a choice, really? I mean, what do you do you say? I'm gonna say no, because I believe in bodily autonomy and let my kids starve. Like, yeah, you can't do that. Right. But like, I guess, what can we do going forward? Because now we see this, we know this, you know, the other side has seen this, and they know this. So they're like, what else can we force them to do? Right? What what's the next, you know, what's the next thing we can we can impose? How much further can we move these goalposts? Is there anything we can do to push back at all there, Ben?

Ben Carlisle  
I think it's just the you know, vote with your feet and vote every single person who voted for these mandates, regardless of their intentions, because either they were ignorant or they were complicit and I don't want to vote for anyone who fits either one of those categories in New York is even worse. It wasn't just lose your job in New York is if you didn't take the employer, the healthcare mandated vaccine, you weren't eligible for unemployment benefits, and you you lost your health care. So I we had a nurse friend, who she resisted it for months and months and months and months and months, and then she got diagnosed with breast cancer and if she didn't take that shot, she was going to lose her job and she was going to lose her health care benefits and she was the primary breadwinner for her family had no choice so what can we do not a whole lot other than to make sure that these people never ever ever get reelected and I don't care what their excuses Oh, I was just trying to save lives this that the other No, I think we're just gonna have to keep a list of all these people and we're gonna have to vote them out? And what

Brian Nichols  
about, and I'm sorry to be like doomsday here, but like, Well, what about to your point earlier, like those health systems in in red states who were like, Nah, we're gonna make you still get this, even though we're three years removed and to your point, it's been shown it doesn't do what it was sold to do from both a protection standpoint on the the person receiving, but also from the the, you know the community communicability is that a word? If it is that's made up, but um, like of the virus, it did nothing there as well. So it didn't do what it was sold to do. And I guess right there that speaks to maybe more of an inherent issue that we're seeing that that's still the mentality that even corporations or health systems are still maintaining, even though it goes against everything we know to be factually true. From what we've seen, based on the evidence over the past three and a half years.

Ben Carlisle  
Well, I would say the other thing, and I left this out, and this is really important. Um, there's strength in numbers. So in New York, you know, Governor Hogan said you had to take the first shot, most nurses and doctors took the first shot, my wife was one of only two doctors in her hospital in New York that refused the job and lost their jobs. That's out of hundreds of doctors, only two and only a handful of nurses at that particular hospital. And then Governor Hogan said you had to take the second job to keep your job. And most people took it. But then she said you have to take the third jab. And I forget what timeline she she you know, let's use an arbitrary number everyone by July one has to take the third one or you lose her job. Well, July, one came around and a fraction of healthcare workers have taken it. And so she said, Okay, well, by October, everyone has to take it. And then October rolled around, and only a fraction, it's still taking it. And then she said the new diet deadline. And by the time the new deadline came around, you know that a few more had taken it, but still only a fraction had taken it and they just they couldn't fire everybody. So they finally said, Okay, you guys, when we're not going to make you take the third shot, that's power. You know, you see the power we've had with I don't want to talk politics necessarily, but you know, say the the blue light boycott, it's very effective. So you know, I was talking with a friend this was maybe last week, he's a nurse. And he said at his hospital, when they first came out with the, with the mandate, 55% of people refused. If they had stuck to their guns, if those 55% had stuck to their guns, and all of them said fire all of us, what are you going to do, you're going to close the hospital because the hospital wouldn't have been able to continue. But now they slowly worn down one by one by one. And he ended up losing his job. But he was one of a handful that did so strengthen numbers that's really, really important. At this point. Health care workers are the most hip to this, they understand they've seen that it didn't stop COVID at all. And they don't want to take any more shots. So they need to understand their power is with their co workers form groups. It gets your union involved. I've never been so disappointed in unions and unions, as I have in the last couple years with these mandates, not one of them, at least in New York stood up and protected their employees and said no, you're not going to fire our employees for not taking health advice from a politician, their their health professionals, they can make up their own minds about what's best for their bodies. We're gonna fight for our union. What's the word? I don't know, our union people. But nope, they didn't. They just rolled over didn't hire them. Attorneys didn't go to battle for them didn't they could have gone to court and fought for an injunction to the mandates not one of them. Did they all rolled over. So you need to talk to your union rep and say you guys need to stand up for us this next time around, get together with fellow employees find out the ones that don't want to do it and band together. They're not going to fire everybody, I would say throwing a number out here but you get 10% of workforce that says we're not going to do it. I think that's enough. And certainly the 5% that that hospital had that were initially saying Nope, we're not going to do it if they just stuck to their guns. This had been over. I mean, all of this would have been over a long time ago, if just a handful of people had refused the mask mandate. This would have been done if a handful of people had refused to close their business this would have been over it really would have taken two weeks. If after two weeks we all said no, that's that was you I said two weeks and now we're going back to normal. It would have been over it'd been over and inside of a week. But you know, people just kept listening they kept listening they kept complying. They kept complying they kept complying and again, I'm I'm not trying to sound judgmental against the people who comply because everyone had their own reasons for complying. Especially. You know, it's one thing to just go along to get along but the people complied in order to maintain their health benefits maintain a paycheck in order to continue to feed their family. I'm not judging those people. One bit. I'm just saying next time let's let's have this be an object lesson the next time band together and you know, because one person refuses to comply, you're expendable 10% of a workforce of refusing To comply that's, that's a really powerful statement. And I think it'd be successful. So that's, that's my other advice,

Brian Nichols  
power numbers, bend power numbers. All right, my man, let's go to our final thoughts for today. This conversation has been something we had been focusing on here in The Brian Nichols Show for three and a half years. I've watched, like friends lose businesses, I've watched friends go through horrendous substance abuse and mental health issues. I've watched friends commit suicide. And it was all due to things related to the past three and a half years and the government reaction to the virus and shutting businesses down putting, you know, putting the business environments in a position where it there was zero economic activity. So you just absolutely destroyed not just businesses, communities, families livelihoods. And, you know, it really hits home, especially when I go and I visit my home stomping grounds up in Northern New York, when I go and I visit, and I see how depressed things have become. And it's not the same place I grew up in. And when I drive through Philadelphia, which Philly has ever been the shining beacon of a city on a hill, not really but, you know, over seven years, I watched it go from an city to a whole city. And that was something for me, you know, that still is depressing to see the homelessness. I walked through Indianapolis every week, you know, for work, and I'm stepping over puddles of PIs, and you random piles of human feces, and homeless people everywhere. And I'm like, what is the society that we are currently in and these larger, you know, whether it's blue environments like you know, New York, Pennsylvania, or blue cities like Indianapolis that I'm experiencing now, and it's, um, it's something I think we need to kind of have a conversation about more openly and honestly, because when we don't have these conversations, and we we don't allow ourselves the opportunity to have these conversations, even when we disagree, what ends up happening is what happened over the past three and a half years where some folks will say no, a lot of folks will say yes, and the people who are like, you know, they want to say no, but they're afraid, they say quiet, and then either just stay quiet, and then get pushed into the Yes, person's position because they feel that they had no other choice, or they just kind of feel like they're just ostracized and not really part of the conversation. And it leads to a lot of these issues that we talked about earlier with mental health and the likes. So I say all this because this conversation is something that we need to be engaging with, even still, I know, it's not as fun of a conversation. And it was never fun. But at least it was more topical, when when people were still actively considering vaccine passports and talking about, you know, doing things like like locking down businesses and considering essential versus non essential employees alike. That was when it was more of a topical conversation to have. But even still, to the point we raised today, there are still the after the after effects of the past three and a half years being felt both in current policy, whether it's government policy or private entity policy, but also in terms of the the physical consequences from people who were forced to either take these jabs by their employers or felt compelled to. So it is important for us to not forget to not just ignore what happened over the past three and a half years. So we can just move forward, we still have to hold people accountable. Because we if we don't hold people accountable today, it opens the door for them to do worse things in the future. And that's where I get very concerned. I'm trying to stay optimistic, Ben, what's happening here, I'm turning into like the black male person, save the show make it so we have some some white pills at the end of the tunnel. We can take there a big bottle of him, please.

Ben Carlisle  
Well, I'm first of all, I agree with everything you say. But I think one thing that's important, yes, let's hold the criminals accountable. And whether you want to say they were criminals, or incompetent, I tend to think we were dealing with a lot over the last three years a dangerous combination of the two. But I think we have to extend some. I don't know if charity is the right word, but some understanding of the people who really were, I'd say brainwashed over the last three years and a lot of them are slowly waking up. And I don't think it's helpful if we call them sheep or if we call them idiots or if we start pounding our chests and saying we're pure Bloods and you guys are the adults. I think you know, we're going to have to have some unity, or at least some attempt to it doesn't mean we're going to forgive the people. I'm in no way suggesting we forgive the tyrants but I think we should have some compassion for people who fell for it. And I think if we can have the kind of conversation You're talking about but be respectful with each other. And just it's really, it's the next time that we've got to worry about this was they put out their blueprint, we know exactly how they're operating. Now we know that they're not done. As you and I were talking before we went on, Biden's already talking about a new vaccine. And this one, he emphasizes, and this one works, which is obviously an implicit acknowledgement that the prior ones didn't. But he gave us the same assurances last time that that they work. And if you didn't get it, you were going to die. So they're going to ramp this stuff back up. And the next time it happens, I just want to implore people bring facts and data to people don't bring name calling don't. And I've been as guilty as anybody, my nephew and I, we went through some knockdown, drag out fights, mostly over text messages where there was lots of obscenities exchanged a lot of him calling me an idiot. And vice versa. I'm going to try not to do that this next time around, I'm going to try to practice what I preach. And I hope everyone can can find some common ground with everyone. And really, just, again, remember that there's power numbers, let's try to convince our neighbors instead of shaming them and see if we can have a better result this next time around.

Brian Nichols  
Ben Carlyle, thank you for joining us. And thank you for saving the episode and bringing us up onto a positive uplifting note. Because yes, that is what we talked about here in the show, right? Using sales and marketing techniques, versus arguing with our neighbors and our friends and our family because it is tempting to go and argue because we are very passionate about these topics, right? And it's very difficult to sometimes have a conversation with someone when it almost feels like you're speaking two different languages, right? So if you are struggling with that, and you want to get better at that, well, boy, do I have a gift for you. And that is the archives that is within here, our Brian Nichols show episodes, which we have over 760 other episodes of the program, you go back to 2018 to today, not only will you find episodes where we talk about how to implement the uses of sales, and marketing techniques into your political and policy conversations, but to also how to sell liberty, right how to have conversations with friends and family about these very controversial and sometimes polarizing topics and issues. But to be able to reach them on the issues they care about, and to meet them where they're at. And to be able to actually help effectively communicate not just your ideas, but the problem you're addressing and the way you're helping solve it. And frankly, start planting some seeds. Right. And this is where I'll leave my final thoughts is that I guess I was hoping. And this is a you know, some like self reflection as I'm doing my final thought I was hoping that more people would overnight not necessarily overnight, because it's been three and a half years, but like would be more readily open to being like, yeah, that whole thing was was was like not just insane. But kids earmuffs, it was bullshit. And to just just acknowledge it right, I was hoping that it would be easier for people to look back at the past three and a half years and openly say that. But I'm realizing that because it is such a very emotionally draining topic. Some folks are just done with it. Right. They want to move forward. It makes it difficult to have these conversations. Right. So, so relationships have been strained. I know, I've experienced that in my own personal life you mentioned, you know, leaving friends and family and stuff when you move. So we've seen that happen. You mentioned your conversation with your nephew, you mentioned like, yeah, like I get it man like I had, I had a one on one of my father in law back that first that first winter. And you know, just making me feel like I needed I needed to get this Vax and he's a nurse, right? He's a he's a nurse and, and he was more on on board with the, you know, we gotta do what we can to protect people. And he's still to this day, says the, you know, hey, it would have been better for you to get that Vax versus not getting COVID and dying. I'm like, I got COVID Oops, sorry, I got COVID. And I didn't die like and you've gotten COVID, four or five times thereafter. And I've gotten zero times. I'm sorry. Like, I understand the mentality of certain people who kind of bought the narrative. Right. And to your point. I think we have to have empathy for those folks. But I, I was disheartened because I did feel that we weren't making headway that we weren't but it goes back to I guess you know what I was saying earlier planting seeds. We are planting seeds. There will come a time where my father in law, your nephew, whoever it may be, they will in solitude be sitting and thinking and just be like, god dammit, Brian slash Ben was right about that. And they'll have that moment and We might never see it right. And I think that's the part I kind of had to get okay with is that I'm not going to see the people who were this vehemently against me who unfriended me on Facebook have that realization. But rather, I'm going to have to just kind of be okay with that there are people who are having this moment to themselves, and they're having this realization themselves. So my final thought turned into a journal entry. I apologize for that. But I think it does very much fit into not just what we're trying to do here at the show, but as a greater movement, right? Like, how do we measure success, it can be very exhausting. And I think this is why I was maybe more taking black pills today than I was my usual white pills. And that is because I didn't feel like we were making the progress. But maybe it's more the opposite, right? It's just that the seeds take longer to root and grow. So that's my final thoughts been photographs on your end.

Ben Carlisle  
Just I'm not sure have anything to add to that. I agree with everything you just said, Brian. And I just want to thank you. Once again, it's always a pleasure. This is my second time here. Had a great time. So thanks for having me on. Thanks for fighting the good fight. I know. I'm getting you know, we're all have COVID fatigue, just talking about it fighting about it. But it's important, and I don't need people necessarily to tell me they were wrong. I just need them to be stronger next time around. And you don't have to I don't need to hear the acknowledgement, but I need to see some better action next time around and then all will be forgiven. So we'll, we'll see if those people don't want to necessarily say it out loud. You know, actions speak louder than words, so I'll be fine with some better actions and less words.

Brian Nichols  
Ben Carlyle, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for turning to the show. And folks, if you enjoyed today's episode, you know the drill. Go ahead, give it a share. When you do, please tag yours truly at BU Nichols Liberty that's on Twitter slash x.com as well as over on Facebook. Ben, where can folks go ahead and find you should they want to continue the conversation?

Ben Carlisle  
Well, they used to be able to find me on YouTube, but I told you my youtube channel got got permanently banned for the outrageous conduct of literally just informing people that they had that worker's compensation claim if they were injured from an employer mandated vaccine. So you can't find me on YouTube. But you can still find me on Twitter slash ex. My handle there is at? Well, that's a good question. I think it's had been Carlyle law. You'll find me I'm on Twitter.

Brian Nichols  
And you know what, folks, we'll make it super easy for you. I know like half of you guys right now are probably at the gym. The other half are driving their kids to school, which is why I mentioned earmuffs which kids if you did not put your Ross I'm very upset with you. I'm not upset. I'm just disappointed. Not just kidding. But no for those folks, we go ahead. We include everything in the show notes. Right. So folks, all you got to do is go to your podcast catcher all the show notes right there links are all included. Or just go to Brian Nichols show.com You can find today's episode Heck, you can find Episode 623, which is the last time Ben was here on the program back in November of 2022, where we discussed out what you should do if you were injured by said employer mandated vaccines so if you want to check out that episode, well I'm going to include the episode here on YouTubes ironically enough, fingers crossed we're still alive here after this on the channel. If not, no worries if you are joining us on Youtube head over to rumble and to Ben swans independent media entity called Sovereign es OVR en subscribe there just to be safe or just a heads up as well. We are airing the entire episodes of The Brian Nichols Show in their video format on Twitter slash x.com now so if you want to go ahead and check us out there yes, you can check the entire episodes were airing over there in their video format. So if you are joining us on Youtube Hey, thanks for stopping by. Stick with us hit that subscribe button hit that like button and of course, a little notification bell same as every single time we go live assuming of course the account does not get nuked and also we are on the podcasts. So go ahead Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube music world Stitcher, there's so many other podcast catchers, wherever it is you get your podcast content delivered. Just do me a favor, hit subscribe. And also, like I mentioned 760 Other unplayed episodes. So whether it's my past episode here with Ben, we've had folks like Nick Hudson from Panda, which is the pandemic analytics or data organization. They've been doing some fantastic work. We've had economists we've had elected officials all that and more here on the show. So if you want to go ahead and I guarantee leave the the listening sessions educated, enlightened and informed. Do yourself a favor hit download all unplayed episodes there on that podcast catcher start with Episode One. get to where we are here episode like 664 Five today. So yeah, folks, thank you again for joining us. It's been an absolute pleasure. And with that being said, if you have any questions, email me, Brian at Brian Nichols show.com. I love hearing your questions. Love seeing Your reviews by the way, too, but getting lots of good reviews over there. And maybe we'll go ahead and read some reviews here sometime soon. Ben, any final words here for the author before we wrap things up today,

Ben Carlisle  
just to thanks again, Brian, for having me. Really Always a pleasure. Appreciate it. Absolutely.

Brian Nichols  
Bet note that Ben, thank you. It's been truly a great conversation. And folks again, if you enjoy today's conversation, go ahead, give it a share. But with that being said, Brian Nichols signing off here on The Brian Nichols Show from our cardio miracle studios for Ben Carlisle. We'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai