749: Rethinking the College Experience - Student Loan Forgiveness & the Decline in Confidence for College

Brian Nichols  
American confidence and higher education hits an all time low. Plus, the Biden administration announces $116 billion in student loan forgiveness with more on the way. So naturally, we got talking about that. Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Hey, there both Brian, and you're on The Brian Nichols Show. And thank you for joining us for another fun episode. I am as always, your humble host and joining me live from Rp n. T. Studios. And today yes, we are talking all things in the world of higher education to help me do that. Joining us from the students rights, Inc. JP Kirby, welcome to The Brian Nichols Show.

JP Kirby  
How are you? Doing great, Brian, thanks for having me on

Brian Nichols  
today. Absolutely. JP, thank you for joining us here on the program. Now do us a favor. Now first of all, how about this, what we'll do the elephant in the room? That's really behind the scenes, but I think it's fun for the audience. I know. We apparently had had a whole conversation before. And it just never really got released because the audio ended up not being too hot. So we've had a conversation, just the audience ever heard it? And yes, I confess beforehand, I had honestly forgotten our conversation. So I'm excited to restart things. Hear us a favor, introduce yourself here to The Brian Nichols Show audience and also students rights, Inc.

JP Kirby  
Absolutely. My name is JP Kirby. I've been in the liberty movement since 2016, working on various things from college activism to political campaigns. And now, I've founded Student Rights incorporated to take my experience helping students change college policies that get in the way of their freedoms. You know, when you go to college colleges become a place of coddling and indoctrination. And when you go to school, you're taught stay in your lane, don't follow all the rules and most of your life is dictated to you what student rights incorporated does is we go to college campuses. And we teach students how to lead a movement to push back against the policies on campus that restrict their freedoms, and how to team up with their fellow classmates and pressure campus administrators to give them their freedoms back. We're gonna be excited to get our first project started in the fall.

Brian Nichols  
And give us some examples. Some like some real life examples, so folks can kind of better conceptualize what they might be want to wanting to look for when they want to give you guys a you know, an outreach?

JP Kirby  
Yeah, absolutely. So things as simple as you know, self defense is one of the most key things people talk about how dangerous college campuses are, how many how much assault happens on these college campuses. And there are college campuses that not only restrict a student's rights to bear arms, but even restrict pepper spray on college campuses. In my past projects. I've worked with students at Florida State University, SUNY Oneonta in New York, the schools were saying, Yes, listen to us, you're in danger, you're in trouble. Everyone is a risk everybody is, you know a threat. But you're not allowed to defend yourself, trust us to do that for you. On top of that, you know, free speech restrictions, schools across the country use things like free speech zones, to just tell students you have to be in the small area in order to speak your mind or you have to ask permission from us the campus administrator seven days in advance before you go out and share your ideas with your fellow students. And those are the types of policies that we go after, as well as several others.

Brian Nichols  
It's no wonder that Americans confidence is in higher education hits a new low. That's according to a new Gallup poll. And according to that, Gallup poll, 36% said they had a deal 17% or quite a lot 19% of confidence in higher education. So only 36% said that they have a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in higher education. And I think that speaks to not just what you just outlined there, JP but also the cost of higher education. It's absolutely out of this world. And then you look at the indoctrination camps, that higher education really has become. Yeah, no wonder that the overall faith in these higher education institutions is in fact at an all time low.

JP Kirby  
Absolutely. And that's not just among students. I think one of the big factors here is that like you said, the indoctrination camps, these universities EVs are a breeding ground for Marxist ideologies that are just pumped into into the students. And the students themselves are being restricted by policies or just social pressure to not speak out or be dissonant about the or voice, any dissent about these viewpoints that they're being fed. And so that combination, when you're somebody who is not in close proximity to college students, or you know what's going on on college campuses, it absolutely looks like there is none, none of these students on college campuses are pushing back against the indoctrination they're getting, and a lot of the problems that we see. And that is the censorship that's taking place. And so you see a generation of students that are, you know, they're just paying high prices for very low value education. And I think that a lot of people, you know, the people polled in this in this Gallup study, are seeing students enter the workforce that don't know how to be self starters that that are waiting around for somebody to give them exactly instructions on what to do next, in our in our waiting, you know, our do not have the level of education that we have been told is so important by going to a university. The numbers

Brian Nichols  
here are just amazing. So for context, folks, the first time that Gallup included, this higher education in their confidence poll was back in 2015, back then 57% expressed high confidence in higher education that fell to 48%. In 2018, before the current drop down to 36%. Here today, that's eight years, folks, then that just speaks to how quickly things can change. So I guess, you know, JP, that obviously leads to the question, what do you think this means for colleges going forward? Do you think that there's going to be still as many people going to college, because another part of this survey actually says that Americans still see value in a college degree, which seems like we're kind of hitting a crossroads here now.

JP Kirby  
Yeah, I definitely think we're seeing a bubble, right, you can't keep inflating the price of a service, and continuing to provide less and less value for your customers, the people who are looking at these colleges and seeing these huge price tags are no longer looking at this as something as a valuable investment. But I think that we are, you know, people still see higher education as a as a social mobility spectrum. And they and they know that you know, they've been told to go to college, it's going to set you up to have better social mobility moving forward. So I think what this means right now, is that we have a window of time to really affect what college education looks like, we have a window of time to actually turn these universities from places that are producing subpar education, and students who do not know how to interact with the outside world, we have a chance to go into these universities and affect the cultures on campus to create something that people view as valuable, or else the bubble is gonna burst. And you're gonna see a lot of colleges, colleges struggle to get any more students and probably fail.

Brian Nichols  
And is that necessarily a bad thing? Right? I know, that sounds maybe a little mean, but like, the colleges are more often than not propped up by guaranteed government loans. So they're, they're basically Ponzi schemes if you really think about it. And I mean, is it is it really a bad thing that some of these institutions that we've looked to to tell us that a person is competent, that these institutions themselves have turned completely corrupt? And they turn to brainwashing organizations? Is it necessarily a bad thing that they, maybe some of them shut up, shut their doors, and, you know, go ahead and put boards over the windows? I don't necessarily think so. Especially when you look at how rabid, the average kid will go into college and then come out in this leftist indoctrination. It's scary. There's a lot of folks who they acknowledge it and they, they are prepared and they go to college. But then there's other kids who they think that what they're learning at college is some secret magic that they were never told by their parents, right JP, and they turn into these mindless drones. And it's really, it's disheartening, but it's also kind of scary, right? Because we see when you look at where the millennials are, but also some of Gen Z. Now, there's a recent study, I saw that show that actually a majority of Gen Z for the first time, from all other generations was actually leaning more conservative, which I think speaks to something there. I think there's something we have to really examine as a society why that is, but with those who are on the left, they are on the left, like far left. And that's really, really concerning. When you look at how easy it is for one team or the Other to take over the institutions. But that's a whole separate conversation for a different day. But JP any any thoughts or feedback there on your end,

JP Kirby  
I don't think it's ever a bad thing when a product that is not producing what it promises to products to produce ends up having to shut down. So I think we're on the same page, especially as, you know, taxpayers who are footing the bill now, and younger taxpayers are going to be putting these bills far into the future. Now, it's never a bad thing for something that's failing to go ahead and work its way out of the market. So you know, those students who are starting to see that, you know, that there was this expectation of you, you just go to classes, you get your piece of paper, and you come out, and it'll automatically give you value in the workplace. And that's not that's not been the truth. And so students are, I believe, need to and are going to be a lot more, you know, choosy about when and where they go to school to in order to fit the needs that they have, because it's pretty obvious the workforce is not supporting all of these degrees at their face value, there are a lot of opportunities to to gain skills in college. You know, I went to to a small Baptist School in eastern Kentucky. And what I've always said is, you know, the things that I learned on those college campuses through my work study, and my time and sports information department, made me a great worker, it gave me a lot of value. There's nothing that says that that Job had to be attached to a university education. That's that's not the but it's this dichotomy that everybody lives in that, you know, in order to get these opportunities. You have to go to college, and I think we're going to see a lot of those opportunities be offered to people outside of university education because of this problem.

Brian Nichols  
Yeah. And and also, I mean, it might open the door for some of those trade jobs, those more traditional blue collar jobs, which by the way, phenomenal interview with Nick Gillespie and dirty jobs. Mike Rowe. Over on the reason interview with Nick Gillespie, was a great conversation and really, Mike Rowe dug deep into this right how we've seen the disdain for these blue collar jobs and these, these more trade school jobs traditionally, and the mentality from the guidance color counselor, you don't want to be like, you know, Jimmy down there, turning wrenches while Jimmy's pulling home a six figure salary, and is living a pretty darn good life. And then meanwhile, you go off to college and you inherit hundreds of 1000s of dollars of debt. What are we doing here? Right that and that's where I think we're seeing a lot of especially young folks right now starting to really pay attention and say, Do I need to go to college? Is this something I need to do? Folks like Gary Vee Gary Vaynerchuk, who are out there, leading the charge saying, You don't need to go to college if you don't feel that college will give you value in helping secure a career down down the road or helping you in your career, then don't waste your time. Don't waste your energy. Don't waste your money, frankly, for that matter, JP. But before we go to our next topic, which talk definitely about wasting money, want to go ahead and give a shout out to today's sponsor, and that is our friends over at proud libertarian, specifically really happy about proud libertarian because they support us over and over there with our magic money tree which I'm wearing today. shirt which you can go ahead and get it Brian Nichols show.com forward slash shop also go ahead and grab our good ideas don't require fours snap back again, head over there, grab yours today but use code TBNS at checkout, they'll give you 15% off your order again brought to us by proud libertarian thank you guys for supporting the show. All right now going to which was a good investment of money, our swag here The Brian Nichols Show to a complete waste of money JP Kirby, and that is the 60 or $116 billion in student loan forgiveness now being proposed by the Biden administration, a weeks shortly after the Supreme Court ruled that his original student loan forgiveness was in fact unconstitutional. Now Biden looking for the loopholes. JP talked to us what's going on here?

JP Kirby  
Right now they're scrambling around trying to make sure that their constituents the people that they just, you know, the Biden administration wrote on the back of this promise of of student loan forgiveness, wrote that to victory in the presidential election and they know that there is a you know, there is a day of reckoning culminating in what about a year, a year from now, little more than a year from now. And they have to be able to deliver on some of these promises or else there's gonna be big, big trouble. And the problem is delivering on these promises requires, you know, again, US footing more of the bill for these decisions that were made. You know, we're impressed upon upon young people and it's, you know, the college debt thing. It's that really grinds my gears, because it's one of the decisions that you're telling 1817 year olds, 18 year olds, 19 year olds that they can make these decisions about about debt. I don't disagree with that. To be honest, I think that the 17 1819 year olds, you know, have the wherewithal to make these decisions, but you shouldn't be going around saying that they can't decide what they say you can't go around, deciding, you know, um, you know, even even other issues like alcohol, like tobacco use now, right? This, this, this back and forth of like, trying to coddle students in some ways by restricting their rights, but then saying, you know, because it benefits us and keeps you dependent on us, you can absolutely take that $50,000 loan at the age of 17. With no income.

Brian Nichols  
solid investment.

JP Kirby  
Yeah, absolutely. Like,

Brian Nichols  
I don't know, man, like I and by the way, this kind of you opened up the the door a little bit to a deeper conversation about adulthood. Citizenship, what does it mean to be a contributing citizen? You know, yeah, 717 years old, taking on $50,000 of debt, which, by the way, is from a government backed loan, again, what are we doing here? But it does open a conversation to a think about, you know, what's the roles and responsibilities of being truly a citizen, right. And we kind of forget about that. Sometimes we take for granted the the rights, but also the responsibilities that come along with us being American citizens. And you see so many people just completely oblivious to what's actually happening in the world today, I'm not going to pick on anybody in particular, but I mean, there are people I know very closely in my life, who they look at me, they're like, can you just give me like a quick, you know, SparkNotes of what's going on in the world. I'm like, you know, you don't know nothing of what's going on. But you can tell me about the latest real or tick tock You saw, right, and I'll get my entire inbox filled with those, but never about, like, you know, what's actually happening for like, the real world, right, that's impacting our tax dollars, that's impacting our culture. That's, it's impacting our future, right. And I just, I kind of, like, I think we kind of have to have a national conversation about the responsibilities of citizenship and, and really have a movement to restoring a promotion of engaging in a healthy understanding and discourse of the national, you know, the national conversation, but also national policies and in speak to why and this is where our libertarian brains come into the play, right? That's where we'll bring the Federalist approach to things. That's what will bring a pro Liberty based approach to things to the table, and we know will win when we have the opportunity to sit down in that world. But we have to first actually get to the table. And I think, you know, at least having a conversation about what we are talking about here and citizenship and the importance of being an educated and responsible citizen. That's something that really hasn't been discussed. And by the way, I'm not teen vervaecke. Yet, the vague, vague, but I'm definitely leaning more towards to the vague, especially the more I hear of him and hear from him, frankly, he's actually tweeted something very similar to this where it's like a basically citizenship test at the age of 18, in order to obtain like the right to vote and such, more or less saying you should know what you're voting for. Which I think that is that necessarily a bad thing? Right? I don't know. JP, not there. Give me your feedback.

JP Kirby  
Yeah, well, I think that when it comes to that idea of being a citizen, and this is something that libertarians, like you and me are super frustrated about is when we talk about our worldview, and we talk about freedom and liberty and you know, looking at for ourselves, we're always accused of all that's a selfish outlook. That is, that is a selfish, selfish way to do. But you know, you look at the students that are coming out of these educational systems and they start to vote, it's about what can you do for me? What can I get here? What what security can I get? What sort of, you know, financial backing can I get and that's, that's a much more selfish outlook. And the, you know, the point of being a citizen is being able to work in your community, right. And that's, that's something that we can do. To help train people, you know, the state is not going to train people how to be better citizens, but we got to do is work to make sure that we are reaching others with this idea of, hey, you have a responsibility to to you know, fulfill your obligations in your own life that that's, you know, the bills and your family. That's, you know, making sure that you're in a good place, you know, spiritually making sure that you have, you know, all of your ducks in a row, but also, you you have a responsibility to create a place where other people in the community can, you know, pursue their, their, their needs as well. I think that's something that we have the upper hand As people who believe in the individual and that we believe in freedom, because we're the only ones who can really preach what it means to be a citizen right now, we're the only ones who can really preach responsibility. Because it is not the responsibility to, you know, point the gun of the state that somebody and tell them to behave a certain way, we're actually investing in people, we understand that those relationships in our communities are the most effective, and only way that we can actively change our places, you know, the places that we live, for the better. And so you know, that citizenship has to start on an individual basis of us being responsible to share with those we are in contact with what it means to say I'm, you know, I'm obviously doing what I need to do to provide for me and my family, but I am going to provide you a space and work together with you to be able to, you know, do what's best for the both of us in this community and create real positive steps.

Brian Nichols  
Yeah, more local, more, more community oriented. That's where we're gonna have success. I just talked to Joshua Tom's here on Mondays episodes, folks, by the way, go ahead and listen to that conversation. Great episode. And by the way, I'll include that at the end of today's episode. So don't click off today's episode when we wrap up. But yeah, that's how libertarians will win when they have the opportunity. That's how, if you are a Liberty oriented candidate, and the GOP, that's how you will win, right is start to win in those local elections, earn that trust, earn that street cred with your community, and then leverage that to higher office, leverage that to the state office leverage that to Congress in the future, and that's where we'll have the most success electorally, but it starts with us actually running locally and making a difference in our communities. Now I know that means Oh, I have to I have to take an extra step and do something more. Yes. Yes. Like we we are you know that whole expression the good times make weak men weak men make bad times bad times make strong men strong men make weak time wherever the whole progression? Exactly, we're Yeah, we're at the like the weak men making bad times part right now. And we need some strong men and women for that matter to to help lead the future by laces. My final thoughts. I guess I'm kind of ranting and raving here. Because like, if you look at where we are as a society, JP like, you know, I have a little girl, I want a good future for her to not only grow up in but then to prosper in the future, right? Like I when I, when I'm an old man, and I have grandkids, I want a world that it feels familiar, but I don't want to sound like an old fuddy duddy, but at the same point in time. I know what makes America great, right. And I know there's your dog whistle to the conservatives, like, right, but like I mean, you go back to the founding principles, the ideas of of individual autonomy and the life liberty and the pursuit ever, ever pursuing the next step in happiness. Right. Which by the way, that's why it's always a pursuit, because the idea is that you're always going to the next thing which which is a good thing that's admirable, but it's those principles that we we grew as a country that I think we really have to really reinstall almost as a nation. And I think we will start doing that locally first, and have that success. That's my long winded, very, you know, disjointed ping pong approach. My final thoughts today, I have a lot to say, I guess. But that's mine. JP, what do you have for us in your rent?

JP Kirby  
Yeah, I think that this is, this is the heart of how we're going to be able to, you know, preserve our liberties. It's not, we're not gonna get any help, really, from the political establishment. We all know that. And investing in activist investing in creating people who are effective and doing what you're talking about going into their communities, and protecting their liberties, to make sure that we still have that right to pursue our happiness, we have that right to pursue things in the way that we know are going to be fulfilling in our own lives. And that starts with being able to reach people who are excited to preserve these liberties, and teach them how to be more effective than the students who are just sat at their desks on at their universities and went out into the workforce is going to just accept the next thing. And I think that we can be really encouraged as as Liberty people right now, because the effectiveness of those who decide to take steps to make change are going to far outpace anybody who is just going through the regular motions of education of the workforce. So, you know, that's one of the reasons we launched Student Rights Incorporated is to be able to invest in those individuals and take somebody who says, Yes, I don't like the way that my college does things. I don't like the way the country is going. But I don't have any tools or skills. How do you start a Um, you know, making a movement to fix these things and giving those individuals the skills and the organizational tools to fight for what they believe in. You know, it was one of the reasons we started Student Rights Incorporated. And I think that those of us who are in these communities full of people who believe what we believe, making sure that we're investing and being effective and giving each other the skills, the support, and the training that we need in order to push back against the status quo, I think we're in a good place. Because we aren't you know, it's pretty typical statement. But you know, we have the work ethic, we care about these things, and we have the focus more than the raging tide of the status quo in the TIC tock culture,

Brian Nichols  
JP Kirby where can folks go ahead and find student rights if they want to learn more but also we're gonna go ahead and find you. They won't continue the conversation.

JP Kirby  
Yeah, if you want to email me directly at JP dot Kirby at Student Rights, I n c.org. You can we can have a conversation right there. Our website is student rights, Inc, student rights, I nc.org. You can go there, we're getting ready to dip into our first full semester of activism. So any support you can throw our way there you can find some answers to our questions. We'd love to talk to you about the schools that we're going to be targeting the types of policies and of course, how anybody out there can help us invest in these young people to turn them from people who are going to come out of their education with low confidence to people who are going to leave their college institution and be prepared to fight for liberty against the authorities and the bureaucrats in their local communities governments businesses,

Brian Nichols  
JP Kirby, thank you for joining us here on the show. Folks if you got some value from today's episode, well you know the drill Go ahead, give it a share. When you do please tag yours truly at B. Nichols liberty, Twitter and Facebook by the way again, one more time if you want to go ahead and grab your awesome version of our shirts here which is the magic money tree over on Amazon here you can see the magic money tree shirt. Yes, go ahead grab yours and use code TBNS at checkout for 15% off your order. And I said yes check it out. So I was sharing it here on the video version of the show which by the way, you can find over on YouTube rumble and then swans sovereign s o VREN. support independent media. We hear The Brian Nichols Show loves supporting independent media which is why we are proud partners with Ben swans sovereign and you if you are a Brian Nichols show listener watching us on sovereign well guess what? Congratulations, you get to see a sovereign exclusive which is today's episode before everybody else. So if you want to catch today's episode before everybody else as well head over to sovereign and sign up but if you are joining us on the more traditional mediums like YouTube, for example, do me a favor hit that like button, hit that notification bell and of course hit that subscribe button so you miss a single time. We have an awesome guest like we have JP are here on the show. And by the way, if you are joining us on the video version of the show, it's a podcast as well. So head over to your favorite podcast catcher Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, music, or whatever else is that you use to listen to your podcast, just hit that subscribe button if you want to do us a favor. And heck, I'm going to go ahead and say Do yourself a favor. Go ahead and hit download all unplayed episodes, you will be gifted with 745 other episodes of The Brian Nichols Show that I promise I guarantee will leave you educated, enlightened and informed. But with that being said, that's all we have for you today. Brian Nichols signing off here for JP Kirby. We'll see you later.

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