709: How Can Libertarians Balance Principles and Pragmatism in Politics?

Brian Nichols  0:09  
For libertarians, should we be principled or pragmatic? Let's talk about that. Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Writings here on The Brian Nichols Show, and thank you for joining us and of course, another fun filled episode I am as always your humble host joining live from our Stratus ip studios. No, we're not redo.

For libertarians, how do we balance principles with pragmatism? Let's talk about that. Instead of focusing on winning arguments. We're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show.

Well, hey there, Brian Nichols here on The Brian Nichols Show. Thank you for joining us on of course, another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host joining me live from our VNC studios, here in lovely Eastern Indiana, don't let the upcoming recession put your company at risk. You have to readapt apt and readapt as Michael Scott would say. So go ahead and change your sales and messaging strategies today and get help from Brian at Brian Nichols. consulting.com. All right, libertarians. This is a conversation. We've had probably like a dozen times here in the program. But it gets asked more often than not one of the top questions I get asked here when people email me their questions at Brian at Brian Nichols show.com. Which by the way, today, we're gonna be going through some more of your questions i Alright, I need to apologize. Being a new dad has taken a lot of time out of my schedule. So with that, obviously, we're down to three episodes a week longer form episodes, interviews again starting next week. But I wanted to take some time here this past week, as I'm sitting down going through where I've really just I haven't had the chance to get get to more recently with the change in my life. And that has been your questions. You guys have been emailing me tons of questions over at Brian, the Brian Nichols show.com. You've been DMing me, B Nichols liberty on Twitter and Facebook. So I wanted to go ahead and just take a second now and actually go through some of the questions you guys have been asking, and hopefully give you guys some some more context and how we can be more successful as a greater Liberty, Liberty oriented folks here in our world. So the first question I got asked, and this is something I hear still, to this day as a topic of conversation, despite the recent changes over LP national, and that is Brian, how do you balance being principled and pragmatic? As a libertarian? How do you decide when to compromise and when to stand firm on your values? Yeah, that's a tough one. And here's, here's the dirty rotten secret. There is no right or wrong answer here. And I'll give you the context in terms of why and this is not a mealy mouthed, you know, weak answer. This is truly how we as libertarians have to approach this, we have to be strategic. So when we're going out and we're trying to reach a new target audience, a new target market, first and foremost, we have to figure out okay, what is it that makes this audience tick? Right, what is the main bedbug issue that they have? I say bedbug issue, right? Imagine you had bedbugs. If you had bedbugs in your house, every other issue in your house becomes like like secondary to the extreme you want. You want to get those bedbugs out. So how do you get those bedbugs out? Right? That becomes your fixation, when we're talking to our target market or niche audience? That's what we need to be asking them or at least going into the conversation, knowing what is their bed bug issue. Now, if it's a bedbug issue that we are a plus on when it comes to a libertarian, or Liberty based principle, guess what? go in guns a blazing let's say for example, second amendment that's been a huge topic of conversation more recently with a trans shooter in Nashville, taking out six poor innocent lives in that Christian School. That conversation we as libertarians have an absolute advantage. When we're talking about the right to self defense, we can say yeah, that school should have been able not only to have armed guards there because gun free zones kill and that's by the way, a fact every single one of these these mass shootings in a school has been through the means of a gun free zone. So you want to talk about real solutions there. Let's talk about that. But going back to the basic fundamental right that you as a God given American God given human being the right to self defense, self preservation, anybody in that school should be able to have the right to defend themselves against any aggressor. So we can lead in knowing that if that was the topic of conversation that our audience was most fixated on, especially in a situation where they actually do something about it with the political process or through societal change, then lead with principles read with lead with your convictions lead strongly. But when it comes to like talking about the the grand, let's say, global politics, it's not it's not really relevant to your local politics. So in that situation, we might have to be more pragmatic and how we approach those situations. While I and I know for sure a lot of you listening in The Brian Nichols Show audience are talking about the war on Ukraine, for example, we're like, we shouldn't even be over there having this conversation right now. Like, we have so many issues here at home to deal with, and we're sending 100 plus billion billion dollars with a bee to Ukraine. What while that's fair, and as correct, that is the absolutely right principled position to take. If we're talking at a local mayoral debate, don't don't even bring that up. That is not known not only not relevant to the situation, you find yourself in running for that office. But also the context, right? What are you going to do as a little old mayor in, let's say, a local town in the Midwest, to address our involvement in the war in Ukraine? I mean, besides raising a fuss and making a name for yourself, and being somebody who's a vocal advocate against that, can you really solve that problem? And is it something that your constituency, though it might be important to them? Is it the bedbug issue? Is it the most important issue? Probably not. So don't spend your time focused on being principled on the issue when you are right? When it's not pragmatically relevant to the situation you find yourself in? We got to be smart, gotta use context in terms of how we're addressing the problems. We're bringing our solutions to the table to fix. So I would say when it comes to balancing pragmatism and principles, as a libertarian, it all comes down to context, we have to know who we're speaking to what our audience cares about, and more specifically, meet them where they're at, say it with me on the issues they care about. Yeah, right. Alright. Second question, Brian, what are some of the best resources and tools to use when you're educating yourself and others about libertarianism? Oh, this is a good one. First of all, I am a big podcast guy. Surprise, I love podcasts, I think they are not only a great means to to listen and be able to do something else while listening to a podcast, but also gives you the chance to like to take a step back from like, if you were at a movie, let's say you're trying to watch a movie, you're gonna be involved more not just in the movie, but also the plot, the the storyline, all that fun stuff that goes with the movie. And while there might be libertarian themes there, I find that the best way to understand our values is to go through, in my opinion through podcasts. So with that, I love podcasts, I think, using them to listen to the news as well as very important, but I also am a big fan of written content. I will go ahead I subscribed to a number of different libertarian or Liberty leaning organizations, news publications. So yeah, I'll go back for the podcast. I'm a big fan of Tom woods, part of the problem with Dave Smith, big fan of Michael Malleus. Big fan of lines of liberty, obviously, the greater we're libertarians network here. I mean, there's so many different podcasts, I subscribe to that I haven't in the rotation. I also have a lot of sales podcasts as well, to help kind of even things out because it's not just a matter of you know, being educated on liberty and such but also, how do we convey those ideas to people? So a lot of different podcasts I subscribe to you there. And then in terms of news, you know, the actual traditional news Austin Peterson's libertarian Republic still produces a lot of great content, even though they can be you know, hit and miss reason does some some good work over there. Robbie suave does a lot of good stuff as well, Nick Gillespie log good work. I would say, you know, beyond that there, there's so many different organizations that you know, based politics with Brad Palumbo and Hannah Cox that are putting out really good content. So go ahead and check those out. But also in terms of building a culture of liberty, you know, Spike Cohen's, you are the power that a plus you have not checked that out yet, you know, spikes going out helping not just promote our ideas, but also help building a community of a culture of liberty. So I would say those are some of the great ones there. Oh, how do you handle criticism and feedback from your listeners and guests? This one? I mean, I really don't get too much criticism. I know that sounds a little crass to say, I guess craft is not the right word. I don't know. I don't I don't really get criticism from you guys. I get ideas. I get suggestions which I love. But in terms of like actual like Yeah, critique of the show nothing really too bad feedback. I love feedback. Feedback is how you get better. Right? I embrace feedback. I actually asked you guys every time we have a show to email me, Brian at Brian Nichols show.com. Let me hear your thoughts, suggestions, all that fun stuff. This has a second part of the question though. How do you deal with trolls and haters online? Oh, isn't a good one. This actually goes back to an episode I did late last year I think it was. And that is do not argue with donkeys. Even when they say the grass is blue. This goes back to an old wives tale where you had the king lion. And he's the one who oversees what is and is not considered fair and not fair in the society of this story, whatever it is, and you have a tiger and a donkey. And the donkey is like Tiger. The grass is the grass is blue. And the tiger is like no it's not the grass is not blue. The grass is green. Everybody knows the grass is green green but the donkeys like no tiger, the grass is blue. And Tigers like alright, fine you aren't you want to have this debate? Fine. We'll go to the lion who is the ultimate arbiter of what is and is not truth in this made up fairytale world and he will tell us the grass is blue or not, which it wasn't. And the donkey and the tiger go before the lion and the lion. Here's both cases grass Blue Grass Green. And the tiger says indeed the grass is blue donkey, you're right be on your way the dog he's like Ha hightails it out there the Tigers like WTF lion, you know for a fact that the grass is green, like I'm gonna respect your your ruling. But give me some context here and the lion impart some wisdom and says, yes, the grass is actually green. That's common sense. I punished you though, because you spent time arguing with the donkey, about whether or not the grass was in fact, green or blue. And that's on you for wasting your time wasting your energy in arguing with someone who just just from the onset we know is wrong. So I take that principle, and I apply it to the trolls and the haters that we find online. If you're getting bombarded with trolls and haters, remember that more often than not they are the donkey arguing that the grass is blue. And what does it serve you to tell them? No, the grass is green? No kidding. Of course grass is green. So you're just saying the obvious which doesn't need to be said you're adding fuel to their fire trolls and haters. Love the attention. So by not giving them the attention, you end up suffocating them. And they kind of go on their way. Now the other way I like to approach this is he's a great sales guy that I've been connecting with here for a number of years will Baron if you haven't had a chance yet go subscribe to his podcast selling made simple. And we'll likes to call people who are just like, you know, engaging in buffoonery. He calls them silly bullies. And I love that approach, because it makes me laugh because you could have someone write out an entire, like, two paragraph, you know, Bs argument about something. And you just say, you're such a silly billy, and you go on your way. How do you respond to that you can't respond to that. And you're just addressing the fact they're, they're arguing, you know, from just complete lala land and you're just not going to engage in the conversation, you're not going to give them the energy. As a matter of fact, you're having a good laugh along the way. So I find overall, the best way to address the trolls and haters is number one, don't give them the air that they so desperately need to light the fire of being a troll or being a hater. But also if it is just something that you have to just quickly address, address it with laughter, address it with humor, and that frankly, will help or more likely than not defuse the situation on your own and let you move on through your day. And it will drive them crazy hitting you and move on. Brian, what are some of the most memorable and impactful conversations you've had on your podcast? Oh, man, this is a good one. Um,

I really liked our conversation with Thomas Massie back in 2018 20 2019. I forget but it was a it was a great conversation we talked about Yes, the deep state in fact being real you know, him talking about the precious which if you're not familiar, the precious is the pin that the congressional representatives get on their, their their lapels. And he said that, you know, that like, like Lord of the Rings with the ring, that the precious gives you the sense of power. And he was saying how, you know, he doesn't like to have that that precious on. And if you notice, he's replaced his precious women with debt clock. That's real time showing the US national debt. So that's great on his end. You know, despite the criticisms and the disagreements I've had with Justin Amash, I really appreciated his conversation back in 2019. That was when Justin was getting ready to depart the Republican Party and join at that point, it was the question mark. He wasn't sure If he's gonna go the route of being a libertarian or state independent he ended up going libertarian and he quote unquote, declared his independence from the GOP around that July 4 holiday so that was a really fun conversation. I really appreciated Justin taking the time to sit down and go through that. But I mean granted, right like that's, that's I think we have disagreements in terms of approach in terms of actually bringing people into the liberal liberty movement. That's okay. You know, I think Justin though very thoughtful, first person really liked Justin as a as a human being as a as a person. So you know, with that, I think that was a really impactful conversation. I mentioned the last episode Jacob Beckley from the Beckley foundation talking about helping solve pediatric cancers through changing the way they're doing the research using Blockchain technology. How freaking cool is that? Yeah, those those three, just off the top of my head. I goodness, guys, I've had 700 Plus episodes here. I would say those three off the top of my head are probably the most impactful. Yeah, those are those are good ones. Let's see, what are some of the yeah, here we go. Where are some of the guests that you would love to have on your show? In the future would love to have Tom Woods would love to have Ron Paul, Dave Smith, open invite. I would love to have I would love to have Donald Trump just to ask some questions. And to get some Donald Trump answers. I think he is a fascinating person. Whether you like him or not, I am indifferent to Trump. I supported a lot of what he did policy wise, great that there's a lot that we critiqued him on during the four years he was in office, but there's a lot he did, he did good. So just being able to kind of bridge those two worlds together. You know, why? Why were you so great on tax cuts, but you put John Bolton in charge of security or national defense, like, helped me bridge those two, two worlds together, so I can understand the thought process behind what is Trump I think that would be a great conversation. Oh, what are some goals and aspirations you have for yourself and the podcast? Ah, so aspirations for myself. My goal for myself is to be happy, healthy, and to be able to support my family. That's really at the end of the day that the top three things I am most concerned about. But in terms of seeing goals for the show, I guess, you know, I would love this show, to be the go to show for how libertarians or Liberty folk can sell our ideas to your average person, how we can bring solutions to the table, I want people to leverage the episodes we have here with the hundreds of guests we've had in the program and all the different things they're bringing to the table. I want us to be a go to resource for Okay, we have a question about climate change. Alright, we had Dr. Patrick Moore on the show. And he talked about how climate change is nothing but hysteria. Oh, we want to talk about the the importance of freedom of association. And just the idea of individual rights. We had Dr. Adrienne vishawn. On the program, he was talking about how Yeah, freedom itself is actually scientific reality. And he digs into all that and more because he actually does a lot of stuff in engineering, engineering things. Thermodynamics is his specialty. But anyways, there is an entire approach to his his scientific method that goes into the ideas of how when we do things in society, we like to do things in a free to move path and actually bridging the world of being a libertarian or Liberty oriented person with how nature works. That was a really cool conversation. So having those those different resources available. That's something I'd really love for the show. But also, we talked about this last time, I am firmly in the camp of good people bring out the good people. So I want this to also be an environment where your average person can say I just want to find a group of people in the liberty movement, who you know, they have a good head on their shoulders, they care about each other. And they want to embrace and promote the goodness of what we're accomplishing, not just from our ideas being right, or what arguments we want to align, but really just highlighting what you're doing in your life to make things better. What are you doing to help improve your community? What are you doing to help improve your life like I I'm a big fitness guy, I'm up at 430 in the morning. Granted, that's been every morning here with my daughter. But you know, I've been up usually 430 In the morning getting my morning workout in. Because I used to weigh 385 pounds. I know how not free I was when I was stuck in the confines of my old body and being able to not only embrace a new lifestyle, but I want to be able to share that with people who are struggling and say, Hey, I went through this, here's what I did. And here's what it resulted in and to help be not just there to help share those stories, but have a network I want a network of good people doing great things predominantly in this greater liberty movement because that's how we're going to be able to promote ourselves is by being the best version of ourselves. So that's a goal I have for my myself I guess in the in the podcast slash the community we have here at The Brian Nichols Show and and um, yeah, the last question, how do you measure your success and impact as a podcaster? And a libertarian? I've never. Do you ever have success as a libertarian? I'm just using it to answer that question. I think it's subjective. You look at how do you measure success as a podcaster? It's not downloads. It's not. And that's the thing too. I hate the,

Unknown Speaker  20:23  
you know, this podcast had 30,000 downloads an episode.

Brian Nichols  20:26  
It's great that what what are those 30,000 people doing? They sit in their, in their echo chambers nodding in agreement thing? Yes, that's right. Yes, daddy say more than I agree with? Or are they taking what we're talking about and being able to apply the values and the solutions that we bring to the table to the real problems they see that I think is much more impactful, and frankly, how I will value my success as a podcaster, I guess, but also as a libertarian, my job in this greater liberty movement, I'm not currently running for office, hint, hint, down the road. I'm just teasing. I got a family to worry about first, but I'm never going to rule that out in the future. But when we're talking about how do we actually, I guess, be successful libertarians, again, you got to be a successful person first, you can't be like, Okay, I am libertarian level 1000. And you're you got all the books memorized. And great. And where are you? You're sitting in your mom's basement, you neckbeard get out of your mom's basement, lose 100 pounds, get involved in your community, and then apply the libertarian principles that you've learned. And I know a lot of you out there maybe not a lot of you because you're a better audience. But there's a lot of folks who they would hear that, and then put up their barriers and be like, How dare you? Yes. How dare I? How dare I challenge you to get out of your basement to get out of your echo chamber and actually go talk to real people because here's the thing, the verbiage we use online is not the verbiage that your average person talks about or talks like, if we go in saying, as a libertarian, we talk about the non Aggression Principle. And here's what that means. Your average person's going to hear that and be like the non Aggression Principle. How does that impact me with being able to pay the bills to put enough food in the grocery cart to feed my family to make sure that the heat doesn't turn off in the middle of the winter? Helped me address that first before you're you're preaching to me about the features and benefits of libertarianism through the confines of a non Aggression Principle, you're the difference? That's where we're losing right now. Because we think that we can just go into this regular world, outside of our libertarian echo chambers, and have these conversations with your average person, and that they'll get it. They don't, because they don't speak this language. It's like It's like you start talking to somebody from China and you know, nothing of Mandarin. Right? You know, no Chinese and all sudden, you're getting bombarded with somebody speaking a different language to you, you're gonna be like, what I know No, ablow, Chinese lady, sorry, helped me understand you better, let's get a Google Translate out. Let me figure out what you're saying. And vice versa. She might not know what I'm saying. So being involved in your community, getting yourself ingrained and understanding not just what your solution can do, but specifically the problems they're facing and how your solution addresses those problems. That's what's more important. So I would say that's how I would measure my success as a libertarian, I hope you as a member of the audience, that's how you measure your success. As a libertarian, I would love to hear what your thoughts are. If you're joining us here on YouTube, Odyssey rumble or sovereign do me a favor down below. Give me your comments. Give me your thoughts. How do you measure success as a libertarian, and if you're joining us on the podcast version of the show, well, email me Brian at Brian Nichols show.com. I want to hear about how you measure success as a libertarian. And also, if you want to get involved in our awesome group over on Facebook, well, you just got to go ahead and join the Patreon. It's $1.99 a month, $1.99 a month that's less than a cup of coffee at Starbucks, I think if you want to go ahead and actually grow where you are as a libertarian, but beyond just being a plus in philosophy and the features and benefits of libertarianism, but actually applying it to how we're impacting the problems our communities face. $1.99 a month, it's worth it. So head over to our Patreon sign up, you will get longer behind the scenes interviews. Plus, you're gonna go ahead and get access to that awesome Facebook group. And by the way, I go ahead if you are a $5 or month subscriber, you will get something from me in the mail. A nice little item here and there from our shop over at Brian Nichols. show.com. Other than that, folks, it's number two of our three episodes here this week. Hope we're all getting kind of back into the swing of things here. I know I finally am really excited. I can't tell if you can tell I actually got some sleep last night so got some energy levels today. So hopefully you guys are on board with me as we're changing things up here at the show. We're going a little bit different of a route than we had been But still, we're sticking in the ideas of selling liberty, but also we're just we're really emphasizing the good people, bringing out the good in people. And I want to hear from you. If you think we have a good idea here, I want to just go ahead and raise up what your thoughts are. So you can email me, Brian at Brian Nichols show.com. Other than that, that's all I have for you. Follow me on social media at be Nichols liberty, Twitter, Facebook, and wherever you go ahead and get your video content whether that was YouTube sovereign Odyssey and rumble, hit that subscribe button and little notification bell so you don't miss a single time we go live but with that being said, Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show. We'll see you later.

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