587: Debunking Common Cannabis Myths

Brian Nichols  0:02  
focusing on winning arguments. We're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Brian Nichols, you're on the Brian show. And thanks for joining us for another episode is always your humble host. And today, we're gonna be taking a little bit different approach from episode today more into debunking some myths, this time debunking some myths about cannabis. But before we get there, we're gonna go ahead and get a shout out to today's sponsor, and that is the one and only Young Americans for Liberty and guys and gals. I have an amazing opportunity for you guys to jump headfirst into the liberty movement and make a real impact Young Americans for Liberty they are currently recruiting campaign field staff to help elect pro Liberty candidates across the country as part of Operation win at the door. These principle candidates are dedicated to fighting for gun rights, keeping our troops home, parental rights and education, education, criminal justice reform, ending our central spending, and many other winning Liberty policies. And when I say winning, I mean that their work speaks for itself. These are the guys and gals that pass constitutional carry in Indiana, Texas, and Alabama fought the lock downs every step of the way, all while helping make Liberty win. So you want to help make a difference and get Liberty candidates elected across the country. If you want to be part of the fight and actually make an impact in our insane political climate here in 2022, you can do so by joining one of these campaigns now through November 8, gas covered housing fully provided and you'll be compensated a total of $2,800 a month for your work on the campaign trail. Interested in head the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash ya L to apply and make a real change in this country today. That's Brian Nichols. show.com forward slash y al let's make liberty when one more time the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash y o All right, folks. Well, with that being said, looking forward to moving on to today's conversation because yes, we're gonna be talking about the cannabis industry. And one of the things we've talked about here in the program is more often than not a lot of government regulations and government programs are often put forth to try and solve problems with the best of intentions but end up causing more problems down the line. Jordan lamb is going to join us today from Moxie talk about how he's been battling and facing Dan, specifically in California in the cannabis industry. Jordan, welcome to the program.

Jordan Lams  2:42  
Hey, Brian, thanks for the opportunity to be on. Glad to be here.

Brian Nichols  2:44  
Absolutely. Thanks for joining us. And I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Because, man, it's one of the things to talk about, you know, having to face these, these regulators. And in such it's another thing to actually experience it and live it. And I think it's important, frankly, to talk about what you see every single day having to face this in the business world, right, the uphill challenges that you have to experience. But also the fact that a lot of these ideas that were put forth it you know, are supposed to be good ideas that be the you know, the was it the means to help the society across the boards. It's like the Nancy Reagan, this is your brain on drugs with a fried egg. There's all these misconceptions that were put out there when it comes to drugs, and specifically focusing on cannabis, right, and all the drugs that really was targeted. Talk to us, first and foremost, introduce yourself to the audience. But let's talk also about some of the challenges that you face out in California.

Jordan Lams  3:38  
Yeah, so my name is Jordan lambs. I'm a co founder and the CEO of Moxie, which is one of the older cannabis brands in the cannabis industry. We were actually the very first licensed cannabis business in the State of California. So we've been around for a while. And we helped really shape the framework for a lot of regulatory regimens that are put out in various markets as they've come legal for medical cannabis and subsequently in a number of places adult use cannabis. So yeah, we've been around the block and seeing the good, the bad and the ugly as it comes to regulating a business that is highly polarizing.

Brian Nichols  4:13  
No, yeah, it's highly polarizing. I mean, I'm from upstate New York. I remember growing up it was it was voodoo, you weren't supposed to talk about it. And you know, it's weird to is the acceptance of alcohol in lieu of something like cannabis. Like there's just this, you know, tacit acceptance like yeah, it is what it is. And yet anything when it comes to talking about cannabis, it seems like people get so weirded out by it's, it's, it's fascinating to me.

Jordan Lams  4:37  
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I've been in it so long, and you get kind of in the bubble of cannabis. So you're constantly around people that get it and have had their own journey of acclamation and understanding. But I just got the opportunity over this last weekend to be in Kentucky for the bourbon festival down in Bardstown. And it was the first time in a while that I've seen the reaction on people's faces. That was very much what you're saying like, Oh, cannabis, you know, that's, that's interesting. It's, you know, they're calling it dope. And, you know, the irony is, as we're sitting there, there's, you know, plenty of people walking around that have indulged in quite a bit too much bourbon. And you know, the delta of effect, when you're when you're used to seeing both, it feels obvious, but there's still a number of people out there that just haven't been educated and realize that we've come so far in our understanding of cannabis, not only, you know, the impacts of using it, you know, upon the body, but also societally, and, you know, we still got some work out in front of us, that's for sure.

Brian Nichols  5:32  
Well, and then frankly, that's kind of why I wanted to have you on the show, because you're not only in a great spot to help address a lot of these misconceptions that are then used by government to put terrible regulations in place. But you're also having direct impact in terms of facing those regulations head on. So I think it's important to not only address the misconceptions, but also then to address why that misconception is so dangerous when it comes to government then using that misconception to use government to try and enforce some insane regulation. So Jordan, what would you want to start out, listing off some common misconceptions that you see government using to go after folks in the cannabis industry or just folks who love to take part in enjoying cannabis?

Jordan Lams  6:19  
Well, you know, one of the things that is kind of topical today is there's a lot of talk about the high potency THC in newer cannabis products. And it really crosses two different lines of misconception. It's not only on, you know, the regulator, and you know, that health aspects of the use of the product, but it's also on the consumer side, you know, you have on one hand, a lot of press lately thinking, oh my gosh, you know, higher THC leads to higher rates of psychosis, and all these different things. And, you know, while nothing is perfect, nothing's 100% You know, without risk, cannabis is a very low risk thing to be consuming. And on the flip side to that you also have consumers now that are trying to seek what they think empirically is going to be an indicator of the highest quality or the highest value. And that's potency in the highest percentage of THC, THC by content. And the reality is that on both sides of the fence, it's really not what we should be focused on. You know, on the consumer side, there's so much more that makes cannabis cannabis and makes the impact and the effect or a strain have the type of characteristic that it does outside of that one compound. You know, that's one and adenoid, which are the, the compounds within the cannabis plant that give it that characteristic effect alongside what gives it its aroma and flavor. But additionally, THC in and of itself is just one of hundreds of cannabinoids. And it's that magic of all of them together and how they modulate each other that makes it what it is and also gives it the different medical effects for different people with the same ailment or different people with different ailments. And also the consumption modalities that people use, which are plentiful today. You know, it's not just, you know, rolling, join smoking it anymore. And could you speak

Brian Nichols  8:03  
to some of the the medical aspects of this right, because this is one thing I constantly see folks will use as an objection, right? I'm a sales guy by trade. So I naturally focus on from the sales perspective, if we can not necessarily overcome the objections, but entirely blocked them at the onset. Let's do that. So when we talk about the the medical aspect of things, I hear a lot of folks who they will instantly jump up and think that's that's not a real response that you know, just people looking for an excuse to get high. Can you speak though to the actual medical uses for cannabis?

Jordan Lams  8:38  
Yeah, you know, so I come from that line of thinking to like you said, you know, this is a taboo topic you didn't talk about and it really came through years of my own just research and talking to people that I came to understand that it isn't what we've been led to believe most of our lives. And the thing that really clicked for me was understanding just the basic science of your body. Within our body, just like you have an endocrine system or a digestive system or an immune system. You have an endocannabinoid system, and your body actually produces its own cannabinoids, that because they're not derived from the plant called anandamide. So they're derived from within the body. And you have different receptors within your brain as well as all the organs within your body, that these receptors come up when they're under duress. And so filling those receptors with these compounds actually helps to induce homeostasis within your body. So once I had that understanding, like okay, the ability to take this in here is not only already there, it's existing, it's predetermined by the design of our body, but also there's only a couple of places in in the entire world that you can get these compounds one is naturally from within your own body. And the other predominant source is from the cannabis plant. And the fact that there's that kind of you know, nature's locking key that your body's asking for on a regular basis helped me to break down the barrier to understanding that there's some you know, deliberate need for this within our bodies and the there's this incredible natural source of it that has withstood, despite humanity's best efforts, the test of time, and it's still here a part of human culture.

Brian Nichols  10:08  
Yeah, well, and I think it's, it's not only a part of human culture, it's now becoming more accepted, which I mean, even rewind 20 years ago, we're just talking about the stigma that went along with utilizing cannabis in any type of manner, whether it was recreational, or even, in some cases, medicinal. I remember when I first heard of a cancer patient that I knew as a family friend who was using medicinal marijuana, and my brain just blew up. I'm like, they're that that person. And just for some context, this person was a noted community figure. They were a former seated elected official, like, very, very prominent. And, ironically enough, I think we're at one point very against the use of just Anibus, in general, very against that. And they had led many campaigns in elected office against it, ironically enough, but then, when they were in a position that they had to use it firsthand, not only did they see the benefit, but then they almost took it in complete. 180. Right, Jordan, and that I thought was interesting, because now they went from being against it to actually being an advocate for it. And I think that goes hand in hand with the importance of people being able to actually see the value for themselves firsthand. I mean, it's, it's so easy to go out and demonize things when you don't know anything about it. And frankly, I think a lot of the demonization of the cannabis industry in general comes from the ignorance that comes from folks just simply not knowing what that is that they are there. So they think fervently upset about

Jordan Lams  11:46  
and what you mentioned there. And that anecdote is really very largely the story that gets people to convert their understanding over it's either themselves or someone very close to them that they see going through something debilitating or traumatic, and then getting such great relief from this product. And then also on the other hand, not having the all of the results that are attached to the stigma is of that, you know, it will destroy your life and makes you lazy Stoner, it's bad for you all of this, they see, they're just the same people that they knew and love or that they themselves as people didn't change and the quality of life improvement that people get from it can extend so far beyond even just what they may initially set out to use cannabis for.

Brian Nichols  12:27  
Talk to us about the and this is something I hear often brought up is that, hey, you should still be careful though, with cannabis because it's super, super, super addictive. Is that Is that true? Jordan?

Jordan Lams  12:39  
You know, anything in life has the potential to have an addictive nature to it. I mean, look at caffeine, or, you know, I always use the, the analogy of people that go to the gym a lot, right? Anything can be become habitual, if you don't balance with your life. And it doesn't mean that you know, it's bad to be regular with going to the gym, right, but you can overdo just about anything. And so, that being said, scientifically, the propensity for addictiveness of cannabis is so far below. Anything else that's out there, almost, you know, I don't want to overstate but you know, the, the ability for people to use it in a responsible manner is a heck of a lot easier than most of the other things that people would use in a similar context be that pharmaceutical drugs for treatment of various ailments or pain management, or even just, you know, unwinding, relaxing at the end of the day was say, alcohol, you know, things that are illegal and even FDA approved, like tobacco today has such a higher level of a addictiveness. And one thing that a lot of people that don't understand, you know, the product itself still come back to is that it's that gateway drug and if you talk to real people in recovery that have you know, become open to and utilize cannabis, they'll tell you Yeah, it is a gateway, it's a gateway out of addiction. And it allows them that ability to get their selves back and move past that need to be you know, reliant upon something habitually. And you know, even in my own journey of cannabis consumption, you know, at a certain point in my life, I was dealing with trauma and physical ailments and needed it regularly. And as I've gotten older and my physical chemistry has changed, my need to consume has reduced quite a bit and I still love and do use the product but you know, not as much as say I did 10 years ago.

Brian Nichols  14:21  
So here let's get real folks likewise, I have my own story I was Oh fry five years ago or so. Oh, yeah, five years ago at this point Wow. Time to sign up again. I herniated my disc in my back really, really bad really messed me up and it caused a lot of pain. And in trying to deal with this I thought okay, I have two options, either A, I can try to get some type of you know, name the the opioid drug, right and, you know, the go to doctor right, try to get prescribed that way. Or I can take the edge off by taking some drinks at night and I can sleep right and that turned into me needing that in order to sleep at night. And I got to a point where I was like this is a problem. And much like you, Jordan, I started to use. In this case it was delta eight. As an alternative, I actually have a sponsor here in the program that is a delta eight affiliate. And I started to use that I noticed instantly, instantly the desire to use alcohol, which is just demonstrably a much more damaging substance to use versus cannabis on your body. And like I noticed, not only did I start to feel better, because I was no longer using alcohol. But now I was able to get to your point to not only manage my need to feel that I needed to have something that take the edge off. But then I was able to better kind of like put myself in a mental state, right, you talked about the homeostasis, I didn't even think about that. Because I actually felt like that kind of felt it like this equilibrium state where I was able to look at things more rationally and calmly, frankly, because when you're drinking like you're you're at this point where it's it's your your fight or flight almost gets turned up to 11. It feels and that was constant for me. When I was waking up in the morning, the anxiety was was there from the drink from the night before the restless night of sleep, and there wasn't a sound sleep, and then just taking that switch instantly noticing that the change. So yeah, I experienced it myself firsthand. I get it. Yeah.

Jordan Lams  16:20  
Yeah, you know, it's remarkable. And we have come a long way. You know, as I mentioned, especially after this last week, and I realized we still got a good ways to go. And education. And really, it's it takes a lot of just like empathy. Like you have to realize, you know, I know from my journey, and I started my transition into acceptance of cannabis fairly young, you know, around 18 was when I started opening up to it, you know, at the outset, I was very staunchly against it. But you know, there are people that for generations have had this, you know, put into their mind. And so it just takes some patience and some understanding that, you know, everybody wants the same thing, right? They want a good quality of life, they want healing, they want peace, they want health. And, you know, there's a lot that goes into your belief system along the way. And you have to unpack that over time. And we're at a really incredible place in history right now where it's more widely accepted than ever. But it's we're still not done. And things like delta eight that are getting out there, you know, getting access to people that otherwise might not have access to, you know, a regulated medical cannabis marketplace. It's really helping to push the envelope there.

Brian Nichols  17:24  
Yeah, well, hey, you know, Jordan, it wouldn't have happened without you. And, frankly, without folks like you in the industry, helping lead the conversation, helping get folks like me on board, realizing that the stigma that I learned when I was growing up was just that a stigma? And to help actually realize that, yeah, this this actually, not only is I would say, I was almost gonna say no different than alcohol. No, it is very different than alcohol in the best of ways. And it's like in the Dewey Cox story, I'm not sure. Are you familiar with that? Yeah, it's not the dawn Shadle. You know, it, it's not addictive. Well, must, you know, it must make you feel terrible. The next day, it doesn't have a hangover like that, that to the point, okay, sure, to what you said, you can't say for everybody. But my goodness, across the board, it's so much better, I feel so much better. Now that I'm away from using something that I thought was a necessity, not gonna like to nor just sleep at night. Now going to a point where you know, I not only can recreationally take play, take us a Delta eight. But also, if I ever needed to use it to help go to sleep at night, I know, I have my back pocket. And that's because of you, Jordan. So I say all that. Thank you for joining us on the show. And of course want folks to not only go ahead and support you and Moxie. But also you guys have some crowdfunding, I hear that's taking place. Talk to us about that.

Jordan Lams  18:45  
Yeah. So you know, because cannabis is still such a polarizing issue. And there's still so much work to be done on the legislative and regulate regulatory side, you know, it's still federally illegal, it's still a schedule one narcotic right next to heroin, and methamphetamine. Actually, I think methamphetamine might even be scheduled to so the way that the government looks at and treats cannabis today is still as though it's the most dangerous thing in the world that no one should ever use. And because of that, it creates a lot of prohibition to, you know, maturing this marketplace. And along the way, because the industry is capital intensive, it takes a lot, particularly when you're growing largely, you know, a plant indoors to be able to do that it's resource intensive. And so along the way, it's become very opportunistic, from an investment side for people that want to get involved into the industry. And, you know, as much as it has helped to propel the industry to this incredible phase that we're in, which is, you know, so far from when I first started in the space, but it's also hindering it, you know, we don't have access to traditional banking or mortgages for properties. And so growth, which this industry requires a lot of capital for is difficult. And what has Matt has caused is a very large concentration of the power within the industry to a few select groups that have been very opportunistic and a lot of times predatory. We're in the way that the industry has capitalized. And so we looked at that and saw, you know, cannabis in and of itself. And our mission is like to get access to everybody that wants it, because everybody deserves to make that decision for themselves. Even if someone's using cannabis, because they just want to unwind and relax and let go because of the way it interacts with their body, you're not going to be doing harm to yourself. And so I always try to explain people to talk well, medical, okay, but no recreational, we don't look at it as binary, you're doing good for yourself, even if you don't mean to. And because of that, it's for everyone. We thought that the, you know, the upside in the growth of the industry should be for everyone to at the end of the day, you know, people like myself and our businesses, we're standing on the shoulders of people who fought and gave their lives for the opportunity for people to have the choice for alternative therapies or alternative means of just relaxing. And because of that, why should it be just like every other new growth industry where normal people get left in the dust and the wealth gets hyper concentrated and, and controlled by a select few. And so because of what passed during the 2014 passage of the Jobs Act, there's an opportunity now for businesses, of which the SEC allows cannabis to do to let normal people unaccredited investors in kind of before the big pop, which is not typical for the capital markets in the United States. And we thought that that was a nice, well rounded way to not only help propel the growth of our business, but to share it with the people with whom we are really built up by our consumers and those that support the movement. And so yeah, we're in the process of launching a what's called regulation, a equity crowdfunding where normal people will be able to for as low as $420, invest into Moxie. And so we're looking for interest right now before the SEC qualifies are offering they call it a mini IPO. So you go through a very similar process as a company would before they would list on an exchange, and our filings are in with the SEC. And we're waiting for them to qualify the offering so that we can we can get out there.

Brian Nichols  21:57  
Awesome $420 That just happen to happen that way? Or

Jordan Lams  22:03  
you might have been a little bit of design in that.

Brian Nichols  22:06  
All right, well, how about this, Jordan, as we get towards this segment of the show, I'd like to call it our final thoughts. I'll go ahead, I'll start things off. And I'll let you get a second to kind of think about yours. My final thoughts for today's episode, folks is frankly, at the end of the day, this type of approach to leading by building solutions, and frankly, fighting back in this in what Jordan been doing there in California, this is imperative for us to actually make things happen. And it requires not only action on our end, but it also requires us to Jordan's point to financially support. So if you want to go ahead and see things like this continue to happen across the country like what Jordan is doing, and requires you to to step up. So I'm going to ask you to please go ahead support Jordan support Moxie. And also guys, if you get a value here at the program, please give us some support, head over to Brian Nichols show.com forward slash slash support that is and to help us grow. If you can donate $5 $10 $100 over on Pay Pal, please feel free to do so. Or if you want to go ahead and join us as a superfan. $5 a month, over on our Patreon you get a backstage access, you also get monthly one on ones with yours truly in a in a group environment. Of course, it's a great, great opportunity for us to kind of learn from each other. So if you guys are interested there and also or if you want go ahead and support the show. So you don't have to take any use from the Patreon. So I've had a lot of folks say, Brian, I want to support you $5 A month over on Patreon Feel free, I absolutely encourage it. So that's my final thoughts. Jordan, what are your final thoughts for today?

Jordan Lams  23:38  
You know, at the end of the day, a lot of us right now in the industry are getting a lot of the therapy amongst each other commiserating about the good old days when there was a lot more passion and love and innovation within the sector. And as we've gone through this phase of, you know, getting regulated and getting heavily taxed, it's become, you know, one of, if not the most challenging industries to be involved in today. But at the end of the day, you have to realize what it is that we're trying to do and why it's worth it not only to, you know, navigate those difficult waters of being so heavily scrutinized and regulated, but realize that we're not going to get back to a place where it's just a free for all and everyone can do whatever they want to do. And so it's a constant. I don't want to say fight because that's, that's confrontational, but it's a discourse amongst the stakeholders, the regulators, the consumers, the business owners, the investors, to make sure that we're all contributing towards just trying to constantly get better. And that's always been our mentality from the beginning. And you know, here we are about a eight or so years later, longer than most in the space. And we're continuing with that that core ethos because it's never going to be perfect. We can't sacrifice the good for perfect, and we have to continue to strive to make it better. And you know what, a lot of things are actually starting to get better in a number of fronts. And we're at a big inflection point right now industry wide, where it's one of the biggest growth industries in the world, one of the biggest creators of domestic jobs, and it's still in it's infancy, it's still all, you know, I don't want to say a house of cards, but it's it's something that's delicate. And it requires people that are committed and believe and are willing to support it with their actions and their words, just as it was at the very beginning when it was people that were fighting for the opportunity to treat their cancer, or the the nausea from chemotherapy with it. And so if we can continue to aggregate good conscious minded people like that towards this common goal, and get those people elected into office and working in the in the regulatory agencies towards it, we'll continue making that progress. And it's just still such early days. There's a lot more to be done, but we've made incredible strides.

Brian Nichols  25:36  
Awesome stuff. Jordan, thank you for joining us, folks. If you enjoy today's episode, I'm going to ask you do me a favor. It's an a favor, I frankly ask you every single episode, but in particular, for today, please go get today's episode a share. And please, you know what, I'm going to challenge your folks. You know, at least one or two folks out there who in your circle of friends, maybe they're a little weary of cannabis sure to them, right, because I think this is a very user friendly episode. It's not aggressive. We're not sitting here on on camera, smoking. doobies. Right. We're not Joe Rogan. And Elon Musk, unfortunately, I'm sorry. I'm not I'm not Joe Rogan. Not yet. Not yet, as in. But no thank you, though, for everything you're doing. And folks, thank you for joining us today. If you get value, by the way from The Brian Nichols Show beyond supporting us financially, you can go ahead and give us a five star rating and review over at Brian Nichols. show.com. And oh, by the way, Jordan, you talked about empathy. Well, I actually, funnily enough, talked about that last Friday, where I was talking about empathy 101 and how you can use that not only in the world of sales in business, but also in politics, and it can become your super weapon. So you want to learn about that. I'll include that video for you if you're joining us here on YouTube right here below. Otherwise, if you're joining us here on the audio version of the podcast, have no fear. Click the artwork in your podcast catcher, it'll bring you over to Brian Nichols show.com, where you can find today's episode, the entire transcript of today's episode, all the links we talked about today, and oh, by the way, all 585 other episodes of The Brian Nichols Show. So with that being said, it's Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show for Jordan lambs. We'll see you tomorrow for listening to The Brian Nichols Show. Find more episodes at the Brian Nichols show.com

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