396: Cutting Through the Clutter -with Art Sobczak

Brian Nichols  
faced with an uncertain future many business owners and technology professionals don't have time needed to invest in their business technology strategies and as a result are afraid of their technology getting outdated and putting their company and customers information at risk. The digital future is already here. But with all different choices in the marketplace, it's difficult to know which one will be the best fit for you and your strategic vision. Imagine having the peace of mind that your business is backed by the right technology investments that are tailored for your specific needs. Hi, I'm Brian Nichols and I've helped countless business owners and technology professionals just like you helping you make informed decisions about what technologies are best to invest in for your business voice bandwidth, cybersecurity, business continuity juggling all the aspects of business technology is messy. Let me help at the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash help and sign up for a free one on one consultation with yours truly to dig deep into where you see your company headed and how we can align your business technology towards those goals. Again, that's Brian Nichols show.com forward slash help to get your simplified business technology started. Antonio Welcome to the program

Victor Antonio  
selling is all about really it's we're not selling a product you're not selling a service you're not selling. You're not selling whatever you think you're selling a solution you are selling change

Brian Nichols  
Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show your source for common sense politics on the we are libertarians network as a sales and marketing executive in the greater telecommunications cybersecurity industry, Brian works with C level executives to help them future proof their company's infrastructure for an uncertain future. And in each episode, Brian takes that experience and applies it to the liberty movement. And this is why we talk about being the trusted advisor you should be able to help us that expert guidance and all the opinions that I'm sure that you have and help lead them towards not just a decision, but the right decision. Instead of focusing on simply winning arguments or being right. We're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and their application in the world of politics, showing you how to ask better questions, tell better stories and ultimately change people's minds. And now, your host, Brian Nichols. Well, happy Friday there, folks, Brian Nichols, you're on The Brian Nichols Show. And thank you for joining us on of course, another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host. And today, what an exciting conversation we are having with sales legend, art subject, and we're discussing how you can go ahead and make smart calls and focus on number one, focusing on the issues people actually care about versus the issues, you think they should be caring about cutting through the clutter, and more a great conversation to be had on today's episode. So with that being said, I'm going to show our subject here on The Brian Nichols Show.

Art Sobczak  
Brian, thank you so much for having me on. It's a pleasure.

Brian Nichols  
Absolutely art. Thank you so much for joining the program. And thank you as I mentioned before, when we start our conversation here today, off air, thank you for all you're doing in terms of helping show us how to make smarter calls when we're going out not only reaching out to new prospects, but dare I say is we're bridging the world of sales in politics and we're going out and talking to your average person. And you wrote an amazing part of it was a Brandon born Anson his book sales secret and I just read it, you know, many times over highlighter in hand. And before we go into the specifics of some just gems that you outlined there, you've been doing this for a while you have amazing books that people can go ahead and check out. And number one, the book here that is over on Amazon, I'll make sure I include the link is going to be the my computer will actually share the screen. No, I guess I'm not gonna share the screen today. There we are the smart calling eliminate the fear of failure and rejection. From cold calling. We'll make sure we include that in the show notes, folks. So if you are interested, your interest has been piqued today, you'll be able to have a resource but that being said, Art, let's start off with you. Introduce yourself to The Brian Nichols Show audience and how did you find yourself in the world of making smart calls?

Art Sobczak  
Well, I have been in sales all my life as most people have actually because life is sales and everybody's a born salesperson. But some just choose not to make it as a career. But it has it turns out most of my jobs all throughout high school in college were sales. And then when I went out into the real world, I took a job with the old at&t long lines way back in the day. And that was what was called the battle system telemarketing center when telemarketing wasn't a bad word. So we were doing business to business inside sales at the time and I realized I was a great salesperson but not not a very good employee, meaning that I was again good at sales, but I tended to not accept the politics, if you will, that we're going on with within the organization. So I decided to leave at the ripe old age of 23 and start my own company with a partner and just grew it from there. So here I am 30 plus years later, actually more than that, 35 plus years later, and overnight success in in business to business sales and training and writing and producing material smarter polling is actually my flagship book, my most recent book. And essentially what it is, is a lot of common sense. Now get this because this is probably going to blow some people's minds out there. Smart calling is knowing something about the people that we're calling, so that we can make our message tailored, personalized and customized. So it's relevant to them. So they'll have some interest in it. Boy, that's a novel concept is

Brian Nichols  
it's it's so common sense, right? It's so basic. And I mean, I love that you said that it is common sense. And this is where I think I mean, you know, not taking a intentional hard turn towards the world of politics. But I mean, this is where we, we so miss the conversations with each other, because it ends up being I have my pet project, my pet issue that I'm super concerned about. So what I'm going to do is, I'm going to just tell you why you need to be concerned, and not only see my issue as the most important issue, but you need to buy my solution, right, because it's not only the issue is the most important thing to me. But I think or at least I hope my solution is going to be the best solution versus and this is where you're bringing this this intelligence, right as we bring in the approach of smart calling, if you actually speak to a person on what you would assume to be issues they actually care about based on who they are, you know, being the target market you're aiming for. And knowing who your ideal customer persona is, then you should be able to make an educated pitch or an educated call to that individual. And hopefully, you will be able to enter into a conversation that's in their world, something that they're likely already discussing with people when they're there, you know, whether it's their family, their friends, if it's more political, or if it's in the business world, something they're discussing with people at the sea level, something they're discussing with their co workers. So I think right there, we can assign the value and the importance of looking at intelligence, being smart, when we're going out and entering in these conversations aren't,

Art Sobczak  
I want to get a transcript of what you just said there, because that's going to be some great ad copy for the book. That was amazing. Good job, and, and really taking it back into just normal everyday life. I mean, I agree, you can apply this to politics, you apply it to anything, in any aspect of life. Because bottom line, smart calling is all about trying to understand what's going on in the other person's world first having that mindset, and then not making my message all about me and what I want, but instead what they want. I mean, the the old great quote from the late great Zig Ziglar is we can get whatever we want in life, if we just help enough other people get what they want. And when we go into any conversation, whether it be a sales conversation, a political conversation or conversation with our kids, if we just step back and say, what's going on in their world, and what might they want right now? And how can I help them? We're going to be much better off than trying to pitch what we want.

Brian Nichols  
Yeah, well, I had this conversation with Tim Wakil back a couple of months ago. And it was the importance of understanding about timing. And I told the story where I had a guy on my on the phone that I was talking to, and I could tell just from the onset, that the conversation was not going to go well, he was just very gruff, very short with me. And in my having the conversation with him, I actually took a timeout. Now, granted, this is also happening here. We're kind of in this weird economic, I don't know, like kind of on hold period, it feels like still, there are still companies who obviously are making decisions and moving forward with things. But there are other companies who are trying to just hold on to a single thread that's left and they're doing a lot of consolidations, a lot downsizing. And this this guy I was talking to, he found out that his company was being acquired. And what was going to happen was either a, their IT department was going to be merged into the new IT department and they were going to be a part of this new department or be his entire team, including him would be entirely axed. And the new IT department would take over all IT operations for their company as well as the acquisition. So in that conversation, I was able to realize based on the fact that I knew there's a lot of turmoil happening out there and something's off. I just pause the conversation I didn't want to push because if I if I kept on pushing, I know that he's not going to respond at all in positive way, because he's not in the position to have that conversation. And I mean, I think right there, we saw this in COVID. And I would love to hear your perspective on this art because when COVID started, the idea of understanding where your customer was was so important. I'm in the greater telecommunications and cybersecurity world and I mean goodness being able to stay in contact with Not only your your loved ones, but if you're a business owner to be able to stay in contact with your customers that was top of mind, and oh, all of a sudden you have all these employees working remotely, and all these endpoint vulnerabilities that just popped up across the board. So all sudden cybersecurity became Top of Mind issue. And now we're seeing that still ramping up and up and up. But it speaks to the conversations that people were having in those boardrooms or virtually, you know, when we were all told to stay home. So I mean, it really does speak to you have to know, what is the issue your customers experience, but take it a step further, this specific person that you're speaking to? What is it? What's in their world? What has what has been the worst day of their life? Had they just learned something awful? Has it been the best day of their life, and to be able to not only have the context of doing the research, and I love that you mentioned that to you specifically in your writings is you have to go out and do research, can you dig into more of where people can learn about who it is that they're speaking to? Because I think sometimes we think we have an idea who the person is we're speaking to, but we end up characterizing that person as a caricature, and not really speaking to who they actually are, but who we think we want them to be.

Art Sobczak  
Yeah, can I come back to that question? Because I definitely want to answer it. But you said something earlier, when you gave your example. And I just want to highlight it, since it's so important what what what you were experienced there with that person who was really in a state of flux of the unknown. And by caring about him as a person, and probably I would imagine, you ask some questions about him and his situation and what his outlook is, and, and you probably built a little bit of a relationship, and then you you left it where it was. So now if you think about this, going forward, what are the possible outcomes and the possible results, so let's say he does stay there, and he gets absorbed into the department, and maybe he's going to be a leader in that department, now you still have an opportunity with him moving forward, he's gonna remember you as somebody who had empathy, and then just didn't try to push your solution down his throat, if by chance he gets downsized, you're probably gonna still stay in contact with him, he's gonna wind up somewhere, probably in a decision making capability. And you still have another contact that you may be able to help. And he's going to still probably remember you because again, you didn't try to pitch him what you wanted to sell. And you're right, that is or what was going on, during the at least the early days, or COVID. I did a bunch of training on it on how to message during those times, which really, Brian isn't any different than what we should be doing all the time, which is asking questions. Well, I'm going to answer your question here, where we do the research in order to get that conversation in the first place. But once we do get that conversation, like my friend, Tim weckl, said on a previous podcast, asking questions, finding out again, what's going on in their world, they want to talk about the most important person in their world other than their family, which is themselves. Right. So going back to your question, where do we get information? Well, there's more information available to us and at any point in history with a couple keystrokes, right. So whatever your favorite online resource is for getting information in your specific industry, and every industry has them, whether that be certain certain directories or associations or wherever, certainly LinkedIn, certainly Google is one. If I could give a plug here for a buddy of mine, I don't know if you're familiar with Sam Richter. He is the number one sales intelligence guru in the world, the guy just I mean, blows my mind how smart he is on how to use the internet. But actually, he put together a tool, which saves salespeople a tremendous amount of time. And if I can just give the URL for that. It's called Smart calling intel.com Smart calling intel.com. It is a premium service, but it can save hundreds of hours per year for people just doing searches and collecting information. Now, in addition to all these online sources, the best source of intelligence is are our people. And I use a term and I talk about it in the book and I go through the entire process, which really should not be unfamiliar to people in the IT world and it's social engineering. Social engineering is simply talking to people other than your decision maker for the purpose of collecting intelligence, so that you can have a more relevant message when you ultimately do speak with the decision maker. Now of course, oh, social engineering was popularized by Kevin Mitnick notoriously the most famous computer hacker probably of all time, and he talks about it in his book The Art of Deception were how he would hack into companies, computer systems and phone systems by using the weakest link in any company's security system, which you know, is what the people, right? Yep, yep. It's you. So we, so we use social engineering for reputable purposes. And it's nothing more than calling in and talking to anybody. It could be, for example, in the IT department, maybe we could talk to somebody other than the decision maker, we could talk to an operator, an analyst, whomever, or depending on what you're selling. Again, it could be anybody up and down the decision making chain or not even a decision maker, but we always introduce ourselves and our company, and that we share that I'm going to be speaking with so and so your director of it, your your CIO, whomever, and I want to make sure I'm prepared when I do. So I'd like to ask you a couple questions. So in my case, I call in to the sales department, I'll get a salesperson on the phone, because we know they all like to talk right?

I'll say, Hey, artshub, check here with business by phone, I'm going to be speaking with your VP of sales. And I'll add this to and I'll say, I'm not a prospect for you, but what I have ultimately might be able to help you. I want to make sure I'm prepared. When I speak with him. I like to ask you a couple questions. And then we just simply go into the questions. So this gives you real time great information, because they're going to tell you, I mean, people are conditioned to answer questions.

Brian Nichols  
Yeah, well, and I don't know about any other sales guy who's out there listening to the show right now. But one of my best friends in in all of sales, whenever I'm doing prospecting is always the gatekeeper. I know that it's weird, like how everybody has this weird, like, aversion towards the gatekeeper, I always found that the gatekeeper could be my best friend, in helping me figure out who the person is that I'm reaching out to, like, there was one account, I remember it distinctly, it ended up being one of the biggest accounts I got when I first started out. And I was just so excited about it. And it was me and another sales guy at the company I work at, and we were both going towards this account. And we knew that the the IT guy was relatively new, the new global director of it, so we were both trying to get in touch with him and trying to get into his purview. And, you know, the one co worker, he was just, you know, constantly calling his D ID calling just going through the phone system, doing the dial by name, just anyway, trying to get this guy to see him. And I called in and I got the reception is through the main line versus doing the DI D in for anybody's want to di d is your direct inward dial. So it's like the the actual number going rate to that person. So I call the receptionist. And I said, Hey, you know, I've been trying to get in touch with I'm just gonna, you know, try to get in touch with with Bob. And, you know, I was trying to get in touch with him, I noticed that his his voicemail was filled up, I didn't want to go ahead and just bombard him with email. So what would be the best way to get in touch with him? And she told me that the Bob, you know, he's usually very busy during the summertime because his daughter was doing summer camps for soccer. So he was going all over the place. So he's not really in the office that much. So I just like, I'm not really sure. But if you were to send something in the mail, maybe that would be the best way to get in touch with him. So you know what I did, I went right over, I wrote a nice little handwritten letter and my chicken scratch, and I sent it over to him. And I ended up booking that appointment within a week. Because I was able to learn from the receptionist, what was the best way to get in touch with with Bob, and it made me my coworker upset, which I mean, it kind of made me laugh a little bit cuz I just started probably like a week or two earlier. And he'd been there for about like, you know, seven or eight months. And he felt like he was, you know, pretty well seasoned and stuff he knew he was doing. He's like, at Brian's like, I get this one. And I got it within a week. And when I ended up moving forward with the sale, we actually ended up closing the business. You're darn right. I use the fact that I learned that his daughter played soccer as a means to build rapport. You're darn right. I use the fact that my CEOs daughter also plays a lot of soccer. And I use that in conversation. You're darn right. I got some some professional soccer tickets to send him and his daughter to go enjoy because those were things that they actually cared about. And this, I would love to turn towards this part of the conversation because right now, one of the hardest things I think, and this was my co worker, this was me up until I sent that letter is cutting through the clutter. There's so much clutter out there. It's information overload, I think the old way of selling which was to instead of being the trusted adviser was more so how could you information than the depth? You know, how many white papers can you fill up their inbox with? And I think we're getting more to a point where going toward that trusted adviser is is proving more, you know, more helpful for not only the salesperson but also the prospect but how do we actually get to the point are not only getting the opportunity to be the trusted advisor but to actually break through the clutter and We'll get into that purview that person at the onset.

Art Sobczak  
Well, and again, let me go back to something that you just mentioned here, and I love your philosophy on. And I call them assistants and I have an entire chapter in the book. And it's titled, assistants not gatekeepers. And if you think about just the term gatekeeper, it's negative, and it's adversarial. And there was something on LinkedIn the other day, and I'm just getting so annoyed with LinkedIn with the with the pseudo experts on there, saying things like, here's how you get past the gatekeeper. Here's how you go through the gatekeeper. Well, I've been teaching my entire career, that we need to work with assistants because you're a prime example. And I've got hundreds of 1000s of other examples from my followers who are working with them as opposed to against them. So really, to answer your question, you kind of answered your question. One is, let's work with the people around the decision maker in order to get access to that person. It's interesting, I was on another podcast yesterday, it was actually a live stream. And we talked about this very topic. And then I did get a LinkedIn request from a salesperson afterward who said, I'm so glad you said that. He said, I've been working with assistants my entire career. Matter of fact, he said, I'm working on a multi million dollar deal right now, where the assistant actually walked me into the decision makers office and walked him in virtually, but still, that was not trying to go past or through or, or over. Other ways to get to the decision maker. Well, again, my smart calling process involves doing your research, doing your social engineering, and then putting it into your messaging, so that you have something that's relevant, that's onpoint, that's timely, that something that's going on in their world, so that it sets you apart from the 1000s of messages that everybody gets every day, and responds to almost none of them. And we can, we can, we can message in a variety of different ways. Of course, I'm the Phone Guy. But I'm also a believer in in using email for touches, not to necessarily sell, okay, because we're all bombarded with emails, and there are salespeople out there who just rely on sending out their emails, and then their follow up email with the inane Hey, just bumping this to the top of your inbox. Oh, my God, give me a break. Don't you love it come on art. I'm a I'm a believer in using video messaging as well, because that kind of bridges the visual gap. And I'm not talking about just doing zoom meetings, I'm talking about sending a message in a video that's personalized, customized and have something of value. And of course, text words appropriate if you have permission to, to use somebody's cell phone. And of course, the thing that's guaranteed to get open and read what you just gave an example of a handwritten note. I mean, think about that, that's almost out 100% success rate of getting opened and read. And when you can make your message relevant, those are all going to enhance your chances of standing out from the noise and the clutter and making an impact so that we have a chance, at least at a conversation. But then that's just the beginning of the battle, then the rest of it is not saying in your opening, oh, I want to set up 15 minutes to get you on a meeting or get you on a webinar or whatever. To me that that's so ridiculous. Because if I already have somebody on the phone live, why would I want to set up a now another conversation when I'm already on a conversation?

Brian Nichols  
Yeah, yeah, no, it's so I teach this to my team all the time to like when you get the person on the phone, continue the conversation, like just just constantly tried to figure out and this is where you you also started to turn the conversation as well is figure out what it is that's going to get them talking. And I don't know about you, but I get you know, one of those telemarketers that call me and tell me about my Auto Warranty. I laughed. I was like, I just got a brand new car. I know my Auto Warranty hasn't expired yet. So you're just being more of the clutter, I'm not paying attention to you. And that speaks to why it is so important to be different. And I would also as we go towards the end of the show, this is why it's important to have social proof to have people in your corner, who not only are gonna say, Yeah, you know, this art guy. Yeah, he's not just, you know, he's not just, you know, saying stuff you can do he actually do it. He's done it for me. And here's how he's done it. I call it the who, how and how approach. I talk to my team, who you are, how you do things and how you help other people. And if you can go ahead and explain that to a person when you get them on the phone, but also continue that conversation, ask them questions. And maybe this is something that we get stuck with because I know I was in theater. You know, I think sales is just as much as art in science as it is a performance. But you also need to be While not reading the script and just you know, becoming the person who just sounds like a robot, you have to internalize your script and then you know all last curl and Rainn Wilson in the office. Go ahead and improv when you can. But at the end of the day, make sure that that that improv scenes still ends in a way that the story can move forward, you have to be able to have the the comfortableness in not only who you are and your abilities, but also what you're going to say. And really your product or selling, you don't believe in your product or not what you're doing, you're wasting your time honestly, um, but I just look at the clock, Rorty Park press the time or the time takes by so fast. So let's go into this really quick social proof. Give us your overview of that. And then as we go towards the tail end of the conversation, I want people to be able to go ahead and continue the conversation. Obviously, it seems to be a reoccurring theme today of our conversation is continuing conversations. So obviously, we'll make sure we point them towards all your links and social media. So we'll end with that. But let's get into social proof art, and how about this, we'll let you give the chance here for final thoughts. Anything that you really feel is is Top of Mind pressing from our conversation today do you want the audience to leave with?

Art Sobczak  
Well, I would say whether you're in professional sales, meaning it's part of your title and part of your career, or whether you're just interacting with people in general, every day, which is almost every one of us, I would encourage you before you start the conversation, just to take a second and try to put yourself in the other person's shoes. And I heard the saying a long time ago can't remember who it was. But he said, in order to put yourself in somebody else's shoes, you have to take your own shoes off first. So to understand somebody else's perspective, we have to take off our filters, and really try to understand where they coming from. And again, so whether we're in a sales conversation, a political conversation, or sports conversation, whatever, if we can at least try to understand that other person, it's going to be a much better conversation for everybody, there's going to be a better outcome. And it probably is going to help you get what you want. Or at least some maybe open up somebody's ideas so that they might consider your point of view as well. And again, nothing earth shattering here. It's common sense, but common sense is common sense for a reason.

Brian Nichols  
Common sense is in fact, common sense for reasonable folks, if you got value out of learning how to effectively use your your time, your energy and your resources, not just making calls, but making smart calls. Well, I would love to hear about and I'm sure art would as well. So are if people want to continue the conversation, where can they go ahead and find your support? Yeah, but also, we got this new book, that was not a new book. It's the new version of the book. It's the Think of Third Edition. Where is a smart coin eliminate the fear of failure or rejection? Yeah, it is. It is your third edition 2020 here. So where can folks go ahead and find that? I think is Amazon, right? Yeah, you

Art Sobczak  
buy through Amazon, I don't even sell that book, I have a number that we sell. But that book I don't even sell it goes through a publisher. But I do have a free companion course that goes along with it. So if you go to this site, smart dash calling.com, smart dash calling calm, and you can click through to Amazon by the book, then there's a spot there for you to sign up for the free companion course that has tons of audio, video text messaging scripts, and what have you probably couple $100 worth of material. And if you want to get in contact with me, I have another site Smart calling.com Smart calling, calm, no Dash. And there you can get tons more content, you can contact me there as well. And so we'll just keep it simple, just remember a smart calling, and would would love to hear from you and help you along the way.

Brian Nichols  
And I gotta I gotta do this art because I can't leave you there. You also have an amazing podcast, the art of selling, which I am a huge fan of I actually just did an episode recently made me laugh because I think you were going through some of your older sales notes from the 80s and 90s. I think the episode was, these sales tips are older than some of you in the audience. And they still work. And I laugh because yes, they are they still work in the overarching theme. Be smart, be empathetic, and more, more and more than anything, let's be real, have some common sense. So with that being said, Folks, if you enjoyed the episode, please go ahead and give it a share. But with that being said, our subject thank you for joining us here on today's episode of The Brian Nichols Show. Brian, thank

Art Sobczak  
you so much for having me.

Brian Nichols  
Oh, ready folks, that's gonna wrap up our conversation with our Assam check folks. If you enjoy today's episode, well, first and foremost, do me a favor, go ahead and give it a share. And when you do, make sure you go ahead and give our a tag and you can find all his contact info in the show notes. And also by the way, go ahead and give yours truly a tag as well at be Nichols liberty, but yes, if you head over the Brian Nichols show.com Or if you just click the podcast artwork in your podcast catcher it'll bring you right Today's episode, including the entire transcription, plus, as I mentioned, not only arts, different social media contacts, but also we can go ahead and learn more if you want to learn how to start making smart calls. So with that being said, Folks, yes, we ended up having a little bit of a change in our scheduling. We did a throwback episode yesterday. Great conversation with a Stephie Cole Peterson. And don't worry, our good friend Kenny, Cody will be having another installment of Cody's concerns coming to us very soon, don't you worry about but make sure just in case so you don't miss a single episode? Yes, of The Brian Nichols Show. Go ahead and make sure you hit that subscribe button in your podcast catcher. So with that being said, coming up tomorrow Yes, another episode of sell liberty and what an awesome episode it is. Jeremy Todd is sitting down with Drew cook the clean libertarian who joined him to discuss effective strategies on winning normies on drug decriminalization, if you want to catch those episodes live as they air Thursday evenings over on the sell Liberty Facebook page, but don't worry. Yes, we have a re air here on our Saturday episodes for you the amazing listening audience of The Brian Nichols Show. So with that being said thank you for joining us on of course another fantastic conversation today with sales legend aren't subject so that being said, it's Brian Nichols signing off. You're on The Brian Nichols Show for art subject. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Brian Nichols Show. Find more episodes at the Brian Nichols show.com If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe. Want to help us reach more people? Give the show a five star review and tell your friends to subscribe to find us at Brian Nichols show.com and download the show on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow me on social media at V. Nichols liberty and consider donating to the show at Brian Nichols show.com forward slash support. The Brian Nichols Show is supported by viewers like you. Thank you to our patrons Darryl Schmitz, Miko Lima, Mitchell Mankiewicz hodi John's credit caster, and the we're libertarians network. trust the experts we're all in this together if it saves one life, raise your hand if you've heard any of those tiresome phrases over the past year and a half. I know my hand is currently raised millions of people across dozens of industries are labeled on essential and forced the lockdown but livelihoods in futures are crushed in an instant and as government has continued to expand its power and leverage fear to turn neighbor against neighbor a group of filmmakers have taken a stand and are determined to help set the record straight on the importance of following the actual science of the pandemic follow the science on lockdowns and liberty from the sound mind Creative Group is a brand new Docu series highlighting the stories of those negatively impacted over the past year and a half by ineffective government policies enacted in the name of following the science with noted experts like Nick Hudson from Panda the pandemic data analytics organization healthcare policy advisors like Scott Atlas and telling stories of business owners families and just your average everyday person harmed by these government mandates. All the science on lockdowns in Liberty is giving us a chance to make sure the true stories of the pandemic are told so please help us at The Brian Nichols Show in supporting the sound mind creative group with noted figures in the liberty movement like Dr. Tom Woods donating 1000s of their own dollars to this project. You know just how important this project is. So head the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash follow the science to donate and catch their brand new trailer to the Docu series one more time. That's Brian Nichols show.com forward slash follow the science

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