372: Conform Or Be Cast Out -with Logan Albright

Brian Nichols  
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Unknown Speaker  
selling is all about really it's we're not selling a product you're not selling a service you're not selling. You're not selling whatever you think you're selling a solution you're selling change Welcome

Brian Nichols  
to The Brian Nichols Show your source for common sense politics on the we are libertarians network as a sales and marketing executive in the greater telecommunications cybersecurity industry, Brian works with C level executives to help them future proof their company's infrastructure for an uncertain future. And in each episode, Brian takes that experience and applies it to the liberty movement. And this is why we talked about being the trusted advisor you should be able to help us that expert guidance and all the opinions that I'm sure that you have and help lead them towards not just a decision but the right decision. Instead of focusing on simply winning arguments or being right. We're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and their application in the world of politics, showing you how to ask better questions, tell better stories and ultimately change people's minds. And now your host, Brian Nichols. Well, happy Friday there, folks, Brian Nichols here on The Brian Nichols Show. And thank you for joining us on of course, another fun filled episode. I am in fact your humble host. And before we get started, thank you to our good friend Fritz from Fritz cast for jumping in and doing a special solo short, with one of our past guest episodes we've been doing here Fritz talked about the importance of civil disobedience and how you can be revolutionary without being violent, a great solo short there. So make sure if you didn't get the chance, go ahead and check that out there from yesterday's episode. But today, good friend, he is from the organization we all know in love free the people who are headed by the great team of the duo that is Matt and Terry Kibby. We are joined by Logan Albright. And today he is joining discussing his brand new book conform or be cast out, yes, a nice homage to the band Rush which of course I have to mention on today's episode. But a very important conversation looking at especially the discourse that we've seen take place here in America, especially over the past two years conformity is on the mind. So what is Logan's response? Well, you have to stick around to find out so with that being said onto the show, Logan Albright here on The Brian Nichols Show.

Logan Albright  
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Brian Nichols  
Absolutely. Logan, thank you for joining the program. And that thank you for all the work you have been doing along with the amazing team of over at free, the people headed by the great Matt Kibby and the wonderful Terry Kibby you guys have done phenomenal work and you help tell stories, which is I think sometimes an under utilized art that we could really focus on in the greater Liberty world and we're kind of going to be doing that today because you have a brand new book called conform or be cast out and there's a reason people hear that and they might say, Hmm, that sounds familiar logon maybe it's because it sounds a little something like here let me go ahead yeah, this is great audio here we go. Little like this

now your astute audio listener gonna be like Hey, I know that sound that's the sound of Rush Yes. And the greatest drummer alive Neil pure subdivisions and that's one of the lines from that song. And I'll pause here because I know that's gonna be hard to hear. Oh, sadly no longer the greatest drummer alive. That's right. I know I just actually forgot about that that now I remember again and now I'm sad. Yes, Neil pure rest in peace. One of one of the best drummers now of all time. I remember there was the video of him doing a drum solo it was like a nine minute video and he's just he's just a master in his craft. But beyond that the actual work he does from the percussion standpoint going to the songwriting the lyrics. I would love to hear starting off Logan as we look at, you know, your storytelling. What was the inspiration that you took from Neil Peart from rush as you go ahead and author your book conform, or be cast out?

Logan Albright  
Yeah, so actually, I had the idea for the book first. It's something that I've been kind of mulling over for a while. And the basic thesis of the book is to look at the ways in which societies have punished or demonized nonconformists throughout the history and I'm looking at a very specific type of demonization, a literal demonization, in which people are identifying nonconformists with some sort of metaphysical evil, whether it be devil worship or witches or demonic possession or something like that. And the title just suggested itself to me like very naturally, because I am big rush fan, I listen to all their stuff. And I love that song. It's one of my very favorites of theirs that it just was a happy accident that that title fit perfectly. I actually have on the cover of my book here. This is an illustration from Paradise Lost and you see Lucifer being cast out for his unwillingness to conform. So it just fit perfectly and I think it's a great title and very catchy and I do owe neil peart a debt of gratitude for that.

Brian Nichols  
So I'm just guessing shot in the dark that the idea of nonconformity maybe came top of mind and era of oh what this past two almost years now which is horrifying even think about this this COVID ism that's been going around this institutionalized hypochondria ism that I found hypochondria, ism hypochondria, whatever the word is, regardless, if you don't conform to it, you're looked at sometimes, like you have four heads like you are a demon. Dig into that, is that is that maybe something that inspired you to focus on this specifically right now? Logan?

Logan Albright  
Actually, no, because I wrote this book in 2019. And just to take it a while to get published, but you know, to quote another rush lyric Prusa, Sean's pusilla meme shows like things just are always the same, you have the same struggles through over and over again. And, you know, it happens to be incredibly relevant right now, which is, I guess, fortunate for me in a certain sense, but I'd rather not be the case, how relevant it is because we're certainly in an era where we're being very heavily pressured to conform to a certain mindset, even when it doesn't make any logical or scientific sense.

Brian Nichols  
Yeah, well, conformity right now. Yeah, if you don't conform, you're looked at like, let's go back to the very beginning. And that's also kind of scary that you hadn't written that when when COVID came because that's, that's just speaking to, yeah, these themes kind of carry throughout history. And we really, we need to learn from it. Yeah, the history doesn't repeat itself, necessarily, but it certainly rhymes. But when you're looking at, when you're looking at this literal demonization, I would love to see you because you you obviously can look at the confines of what's happening with this COVID hysteria. You see a lot of people who can't have conversations, and I would I would love to sit, you know, have you dig into when you're going into the actual is a story that you're telling a narrative? And if so, how are you articulating this non conformity in the lens of the the actual story itself.

Logan Albright  
It's not a single narrative, but I'm trying to trace the phenomenon through its historical roots through a variety of high profile incidents throughout history and in a number of different facets, like there's a chapter on medical non conformism, which is incredibly relevant right now. And you know, there's a chapter is about the Salem witch trials and the Inquisition and things like that. One of my favorite subjects is the Satanic Panic of the 70s and 80s, in which there was just the specter of these satanic rituals that didn't exist, that people were freaking out about and afraid of, and their fear led them to do horrible things and ruin people's lives. That's something that we're certainly seeing right now. And, you know, we're fear has taken over the mainstream narrative, and people are just terrified. And, and we're seeing this where you refuse to do something maybe with your own body or with your children that you're demanded to do. And they're not only disagreeing with your choice to do that, but they're kind of trying to categorize you as some sort of moral evil, because you were refusing to get vaccinated or you don't want to get your children vaccinated, or you don't want to wear a mask outside by yourself. You're a bad person, you're hurting other people. And it's, it's this kind of moralizing, this moral majority, which used to be on the right, you know, a lot of the examples in my book come from the Christian right? People who are saying, you know, you have to obey our way of doing things or else you're morally wrong. And now we're seeing it on the left. So I mean, it's both sides are certainly capable of this.

Brian Nichols  
No, let's go Brandon. I mean, just like look at like, if you don't conform to that being just like the worst thing ever said, You're you also look like you're one of the the people with three heads, but you're touching on what you're talking about in an article you actually just wrote over the brownstone Institute. I'm going to go ahead and look here. It's medical nonconformity. And it's persecution and you start off with a tendency for society to exert pressure on its members to conform to certain behavioral norms is nothing new. It's easy to see how in the earliest human societies where the basic survival was precarious. At best, the nonconformist might represent a threat to a group stability and would therefore be discouraged by whatever means necessary. I mean, right there just hit the nail on the head in terms of what just happened over the past two years and how people not only have been reacting but also how have they been really connected. to react, you look at what I will look at the mainstream corporate media and what they have done in terms of helping propagate this COVID Fear porn. It's ridiculous. You can, at one point acknowledge the dangers of COVID. But the same point in time have a rational ability to make logical decisions based on the number one the data and information available. But number two, your own personal risk assessments you I mean, that's, I don't know what's so crazy about that we can make risk assessments, we do it every single day you drive to work in the day, you're making the risk assessment that you could get in a car accident that somebody could be a drunk driver and hits you, all these bad things can happen. But we we still make these decisions. But then you you apply Well, it's a virus logon, and it's a virus and it could be in the air, and you could be unintentionally putting people at risk. And that becomes a hard argument. And at the very beginning of the pandemic, There were articles, tweets, all galore. There's no libertarians and a pandemic. Remember, though, remember all that that was so much fun. And now all said it's like, actually, actually, everybody pretty much ends up being a libertarian at the end of a pandemic. And that's why I think I mean, we're recording here on election night, I have a strong gut feeling we're going to see Glenn Younkin just just trample Terry McAuliffe there in Virginia, knock on wood if I'm if I'm wrong, but fingers crossed, because I think that will be a start to a big change. But going back to the conformity, how do we answer that? Because I mean, at the onset, there's a lot of libertarians, I'm not going to point fingers though I could easily who Whirlpool? Yeah, well, you know, either, right? We could end up hurting people, and they, unfortunately play the role of useful idiot. But what would be the answer to the well, you could have a virus you could get other people sick. Logan, what what should be the libertarian response?

Logan Albright  
There's a couple of ways you could answer that question, I think, his historical argument and there's sort of the the knowledge problem argument. First of all, if you look at historical examples, where the government has tried to mandate certain types of medical procedures, or you know, heavily encouraged, but medical procedures, it doesn't always end well. It's ended very badly. I'm really fond to pointing out the eugenics experiments in the early 20th century, which nobody ever likes to talk about. They're kind of buried in history, I don't think they're taught in schools. But you know, the government was forcibly sterilizing 10s, of 1000s of American citizens without their consent. And because they thought it would improve the race, it was this idea of, you know, if we, if we make sure that unfit, people don't breed, our race will be better in the future for the common good, which is a really evil idea, but was very popular and mainstream at the time. And we elected a eugenicist president in Woodrow Wilson. So like, this is not a fringe movement. And that was horrible. And we only stopped when we went to war with the Nazis and realized that they were doing the same thing. And maybe it wasn't a good look for us. But you have other things like the thalidomide experiments to where you had all these babies born with deformities. And you have these, like the radium girls were radium was this new treatment that was put in toothpaste and mints and chewing gum and stuff, and just caused massive amounts of radiation poisoning. The the people in charge are the people in government, I don't even want to give them the dignity of calling them in charge. They don't know everything, you know, and they make mistakes. And when you mandate something on a population wide level, if it goes wrong, it goes wrong for everybody. And so it's much better to let people make their individual choices, and some are going to make the right choice and some are going to make the wrong choice. But you don't run the risk of just wiping out an entire group of people because you made the wrong decision and mandated it for everybody. So that's a really strong argument against those type of mandates. I think

Brian Nichols  
I, I had this conversation with one of my employees a couple weeks ago, we were going back and forth, you know, on a lunch break, just mental mental jujitsu, and it was fun. He's a little bit younger, and he's definitely more left leaning. And I gotten to the point now where I think he started understand that he's actually more of like a, almost a left libertarian, which I know that a lot of people in the audience were like, what, but it's more so the understanding that hey, if you are going to go ahead and have a society let like almost like a voluntary society, right? If you want go pay crazy amounts of taxes, sure, go go have that world and then we'll have our world that's fine. I think he's starting to find he's more of that. But one of the arguments that I keep on going back to when I'm having this conversation, it's not even really an argument. It's just more of a question I will pose to him and I will say okay, well so what will you do in the situation that whatever your moral good person is doing, all of a sudden gets replaced by the worst person in the world? What will you do then? And every time he's just kind of like has that moment and you realize he's starting to get it because if you if you have a situation where that one person, good or bad for good purposes or more nefarious purposes, will have that top down decision impacts everybody there is no ability for market recourse and you had another great line in the article I was actually scrolling here when you were talking to try to find it. You say I recently stumbled across a reference to mandatory vaccination in a 1905 essay, entitled How I became a socialist by Jack London London explains that he was forcibly injected by a medical student during a period of incarceration for vagrancy and cites the incident as part of a long list of grievances against how the poor are treated. And this is where you go into the quote, ear I stayed into I straighten to Niagara Falls was nabbed by a fee hunting constable denied the right to plead guilty or not guilty sentence out of hand to 30 days in prison for having no fixed abode and no visible means of support, handcuffed and chained to a bunch of men similar circumstance carted down country to Buffalo registered at the Erie County penitentiary had my head clipped, and my budding moustache shape was dressed in combat stripes compulsorily vaccinated by a medical student who practice on such as we made to march the lockstep and put to work under the eyes of guards armed with Winchester rifles, all for the adventuring in blonde, beastly fashion. Wow, wow. I mean, and that's from 1905. And now we're seeing again, this conversation take place. And one I know, I know, Twitter is not real life. I get that. However, there are people on Twitter, who are real people. And I've seen some people, especially in the pro Australia, New Zealand camp. I don't think that that would be anything they would be too upset with Logan.

Logan Albright  
Yeah. And I think that that London quote is particularly interesting, because he was a committed socialist throughout his life. And he is articulating a lot of the complaints that you see the modern socialist movement complaining about which I think that they rightly complain about things like police abuses and prison abuses, and the way that the poor are treated by the state, which I totally agree with those complaints. And one of his complaints is that they're injecting him with medicine against his will. And like, you would think people who are worried about police power and who are worried about persecution of the poor would have a problem with this, because you know, it's the poor who suffer under these things always. And we know now that, you know, minority communities are the ones who have the lower vaccination rates across the country. And, you know, they may have very good reason to be skeptical of vaccinations and historically speaking, and but, you know, trying to coerce them into doing this, it doesn't seem very, it doesn't seem to fit with the other complaints that the socialists have about the abuses of police power.

Brian Nichols  
Well, how do we, how do we win them over then? Right, because this, this whole show is focused on sales and marketing. So let's go back to the the nonconformity argument from the onset. This is the mentality we have to at least get them to be open with and let's maybe go back a step. Are they the market now? I mean, I see a lot of people on the far left, I would say, have kind of given up on principles in pursuit of power. That's scary to me.

Logan Albright  
What's starting to happen on the right to you're seeing a reactionary right wing saying, Well, if the left is just going to be after power, we might as well do the same thing, because it's us or them at this point. And both sides are very frightening to me. I think there's so few people at principle left, that it's really scary to see that and I don't honestly know how to persuade them on what we're trying to do it for the people is to, to show people that this is not a good way I had hoped going back to the point that you made about the people in power, I had hoped that the Donald Trump administration would wake a lot of people up to the fact that when you give the president such unlimited unchecked power, and someone like Donald Trump becomes president, that may not be good for everybody, maybe we should be a little careful about that. It doesn't seem to have taught anybody that lesson. So I don't know. But I just tried to have kind of one to one conversations with people and say, you know, you have to realize if this can be used to do something you want, it can also be used to do something you fear and hate. And that's the nature of power.

Brian Nichols  
Well, I use that as one of the main arguments, not even I keep on saying the word, the word argument. I think that's just like in our mind now what you have to say, whenever you're making a position, that's the premise, there we go of my book, I wrote the e book for Z steps to help sell liberty to friends and family. And the whole idea is that you don't have to be the person standing in the front of the auditorium with a crowd of 300. You don't have to be the person sitting behind the microphone, talking to an audience of 1000s. No, you you what you can do is you can be the person at the watercooler talking to Bill and Jan and and just listening to what they're talking about the issues they care about. And then if they're looking if they're open, you can tell and this is the other thing too. You can tell when somebody is open for business, right? If they're ready to have a conversation, you can tell you know, and when you enter into that conversation that you're willing to offer solutions, and truly help them uncover not just you know what the pain points are but how they can actually over Come them, show them that path forward. Right there, I find that I get more success going that route than browbeating people than arguing with people. If anything, argument, people just reinforces the positions that you believe in the first place. And you have what we have now what you just talked about, right? The two sides who have gotten even more polarized, and now they're just going to wield power. And you have to fish just fighting each other. And and what do you do? What? And let me ask you this, what do you do? How do we turn down the intensity turn down the rhetoric to be able to at least have, I would say, the larger group of people in the middle to be able to have a civil rational conversation?

Logan Albright  
Well, I think that it has to be done on the individual level, I don't know if there's kind of a scalable mass way to do this. Because there has to be a foundation of trust, in order to get people to think about what you're saying and listen to you. I've always said that you can't change other people's minds, they can only change their own minds. And they have to be in a position where they're willing to make that change. So I've been having all kinds of great conversations about this book with people I've been talking, it's kind of a broad crossover appeal and the topic of the book. So like, I had an interview the other day with a fundamentalist Christian. And then the very next day, I had an interview with a guy from the Satanic Temple. And they were both fantastic conversations. And we listened to each other, and we disagree on certain things. But we like we have share a basic, you know, desire to live free and to, you know, be able to express ourselves without being persecuted. And so you really have to get people who are willing to listen to you and have those conversations. And then if you publish those conversations, then maybe other people will find them and learn something from them. But I really think there has to, you have to build that foundation of trust, because otherwise people are just going to think that you're trying to sell them something, you're trying to convince them of something that they don't want to be convinced up and they put their shields up. And once their shields are up, you're not going to get to make any headway whatsoever. So you have to like show that you're a good person and you're not out to hurt them or control them. Yes, well, here's my ideas, listen to them. I think that's the way you have to go about it.

Brian Nichols  
I'm fist bump and off off camera here, Logan, because in sales, that is easily one of the most under underappreciated and underutilized skills is building that natural trust. And you do that by being authentically you and showing you care and building that connection. If you just go in and you show that you're just trying to sell something right there, red flags go up there, like us guy has commissioned breath. I know he's just trying to sell me something. And one of the things I make it a point to do, whenever I you know, engage in a conversation with a person on the phone, if I'm having a next step and stuff and I'm able to build some rapport, I feel comfortable. Rather they I feel they they're more comfortable enough for the the email I'll say, by the way, you know, what are one of the one or two worst things you hate about sales guys, and you know what they always are, number one, they're always trying to sell me something that I don't need. Meaning they don't care about what I actually need, what problems I have. And number two, they don't make me feel special. They just make me feel like I am a means to an end. So if I need to hit my quota at the end of the month, then it's just you know, it's this person plus this person equals coaching. And I now I've made my quota and on to the next. And that's that's not a salesperson that that's an order taker who's just going on to the next. So we see this in politics, too. And that's why I think what you're doing along with Matt and the team over free the people has been so successful, because, I mean, I took the document here, you guys would Thomas Massie and I've been able to share it with lefty friends. And they didn't realize it was Oh, is that Thomas Massie that COVID Thomas Massie and then also like their brains explode, because as they watch the documentary, they don't think of him that way. They think of him as this guy who's this eco friendly guy living on a self sustaining farm in Kentucky. And he's just happens to be a congressman

Logan Albright  
and humanizes him and shows that he's more than just a set of political positions.

Brian Nichols  
BINGO, BINGO. And that, I think right there is exactly the path that we need to take. If we want to have long lasting success. Even if it's not necessarily on the micro level, if we're trying to build some type of solution going forward as a larger movement, that is the template that works. So follow the template at least instead of just trying to reinvent the wheel every single time. But back to what we want to talk about. And that is your book. So obviously conform or be cast that we want people to be able to go ahead and find that now. Where can they go ahead and find I didn't see I was going to our email here. I didn't see a link, where can they go ahead and purchase this bad boy?

Logan Albright  
Right? Well, it's available on amazon.com. Right now, it's actually coming out December 1, so you can pre order it now. Great Christmas gift for people who are looking for something available on amazon.com and Barnes and noble.com. Wherever fine books are sold. I believe the e book is due to be out imminently. So if you want an e book rather than a paperback, you can get that as well. You can also go to my website, which is Logan all bright.com and do all my work there. And there's not that's the way to get it, but there's lots of different avenues to purchase it. If you don't want to go through Amazon, you can go through the publisher directly or you can go through Barnes and Noble or any of those other sites.

Brian Nichols  
And how about that? If they do want to go to Amazon? I'll make it easy. We'll make it an easy show link here. Brian Nichols show.com forward slash conform. Hi, how about that? I'll bring you right to the link. And how about this for the end of the show? Look I'm I like to do is give you a platform to really focus on anything from the conversations that you want the audience to leave with. And obviously the nonconformity, I think, is something that we really we focused on, and I think we really should hammer home. So is there anything in that world you want to focus on specifically? And then otherwise? Anything Top of Mind firewall, my friend? Yeah, I

Logan Albright  
think that like first and foremost that I consider myself an individualist, there's all these labels, you can apply you call him I call myself a libertarian, I call myself an anarchist. But you know, first and foremost, I'm an individualist because I value the dignity and the sovereignty of the individual. And that's kind of what the motivating factor for this book is to celebrate people, and to defend people who embrace their individuality, and to go out on a limb and do something different. And the point I'd like to make about this is that while you know, in primitive societies being a non conformance could be dangerous to the group. It's also impossible to make any progress without people who are willing to do something different. If you keep doing the same thing over and over again, you're not going to stagnate, you're never going to do anything different. So we need nonconformist and society, to bring us forward and to do things. And when you have this inherent hostility towards them and wanting to beat them down and persecute them and stop them from being different, and demand conformity, you you're inhibiting progress itself. And while there are certainly types of non conformism that aren't good, there's, you know, per se, I think nonconformity should not be punished just because it's different. And I think that we're all individuals and we can all find something within ourselves that's a little different from everybody else, and we wouldn't want that to be attacked by other people. So we should extend the same generosity and charity to other people.

Brian Nichols  
It's okay to be different not only is it okay to be different actually in sales being different is a differentiator which helps you when that being said Logan, it's a great conversation and folks, again, you want go ahead and get the book Brian Nichols show.com, forward slash, conform, conform, or be cast out. Thank you so much, Logan Albro for joining us here on today's episode of Brian Nichols show.

Logan Albright  
Thank you so much for having me, Brian. It was a lot of fun. Have you checked out

Brian Nichols  
the new Brian Nichols show collection over at proud libertarian head the Brian Nichols show.com forward slash shop and you can grab some amazing Liberty swag that will definitely help pique some interest from our good ideas don't require for snapbacks Alexa overthrow the government T shirts question everything mugs and of course our ever popular don't hurt people don't take people's stuff bumper sticker, The Brian Nichols Show shop over at proud libertarian has all the Liberty swag you need and hey, if you're looking for more awesome Liberty apparel, check out the rest of the amazing proud libertarian store while you're over there and be sure to use code TNS at checkout to get 10% off your entire order. That's right 10% off your entire order from proud libertarian, including everything over at The Brian Nichols Show shop and all you have to use is code TNS at checkout one more time, head to Brian Nichols show.com forward slash shop and check out the brand new Brian Nichols show store over at proud libertarian and use code TS at checkout for 10% off your entire order. Alrighty, folks, that's gonna wrap up our conversation with Logan Albright. Thank you for joining the show Logan and folks if you want to go ahead and yes get a copy of Logan's brand new book had to Brian Nichols show.com forward slash conform and you can go ahead and find conform or be cast out. And Yes folks, if you enjoyed the episode, please do me a favor. Go ahead give today's episode a share. And also when you do make sure you go ahead and give yours truly a tag at V. Nichols liberty and while you're at it, go ahead and give Logan a tag as well. His social media can be found in the show notes go ahead click the artwork in your your podcast, it'll bring you right to the Brian Nichols show.com where you can find today's episode including the transcription plus all 300 Almost 400 episodes total available for you with the amazing audience here at The Brian Nichols Show. So with that being said coming up tomorrow Yes the one and only Jeremy Todd is continuing his cell Liberty program over on Facebook Live that aired actually yesterday, Thursday evening. So if you missed that on Facebook, well I've no worries you can catch it again tomorrow where he discussed all things social media with social media extraordinary Shay Harrington and discussed Jeremy and Shay discuss how to grow your social media her recent journey mastering her physical fitness and a lot more so make sure you've hit that subscribe button. So not only do you not miss The Brian Nichols Show every single day. Yes, Sunday through Saturday, but also make sure you head over to YouTube give a subscribe to both The Brian Nichols Show as well as cell Liberty so you don't miss again a single time a video version of the program goes live but with that being said, it's Brian Nichols signing off. You're on at The Brian Nichols Show for Logan Albright. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for Listening to The Brian Nichols Show. Find more episodes at the Brian Nichols show.com. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe. Want to help us reach more people? Give the show a five star review and tell your friends to subscribe to find us the Brian Nichols show.com and download the show on Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow me on social media at V. Nichols liberty and consider donating to the show at Brian Nichols show.com forward slash support. The Brian Nichols Show is supported by viewers like you. Thank you to our patrons Darryl Schmitz, Morris Stanley, Michael Lima, Michel Mankiewicz, Cody John's for the caster and the we're libertarians network. audio production for The Brian Nichols Show is brought to you by dB podcast audio Learn more by emailing inquiries to William at dB pod audio.com.

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