351: How Occupational Licensing Adds to the Monopoly on Fear -with Shoshana Weissmann

Brian  
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Unknown Speaker  
So it's so funny, I didn't realize it had been that long either. So many things be like it was just yesterday. But yeah, during the pandemic at the very beginning, I thought I was gonna have nothing to do. I'm like, well, no one needs licensing reform as it relates to the pandemic. And the nurses and doctors weren't allowed to work across state lines. And other people like how to move or telehealth was a big thing. You know, maybe you, you worked in one place, but you spend time with your family during COVID. So you could all be together and you couldn't you're seeing doctors, especially mental health professionals. And my work just got crazy. I really wasn't expecting it. But basically explaining to people like hey, these waivers are really good, they work. It hasn't caused any more harm. And they work in better times as well. And we need to make sure that we're not so horribly unprepared for any pandemic in the future that we you know, that we can't do this again and and like making sure that we have that flexibility because during the pandemic You know, there are hotspots all over the country towards the beginning. But having the flexibility to say Kansas is fine, you know, Kansas isn't really facing anything. healthcare professionals from there can go to let's say Oregon, and focus on that without any problems like that's something that's pretty Really important, in addition to just like, when, when times are hard, just getting rid of barriers is really important. So, more people have been understanding that more people have understood the value of regulatory reform in the healthcare space, which isn't something I ever expected to see. But I'm really, really excited about it. Because it's important, we want to make sure nurses aren't stopped by doctors from doing from, you know, engaging in their expertise, or that pharmacists aren't stopped from nurses and doctors from engaging in their expertise, and everyone can access more health care, because, you know, we pay for a system, the system has a lot of problems, but at the very least, we shouldn't stop people who have the skills from being able to contribute to their positions.

Brian  
Well, and I think right now, that is, the big thing that's on everyone's Top of Mind is how are we seeing right now, hundreds of hospitals just laying off or just outright firing nurses doctors in mass, and is it because they do have really control on the ability to decide who is and is not going to be allowed to practice medicine just by the sheer nature that they control the area that can take place.

Unknown Speaker  
So it's interesting on that side, it's a little bit less regulatory, I mean, there's there's real problems of competition. But like, if more places were able to open up the certificate of need as a really big problem, you probably be seeing less of that, if there's more competition for staff. And that more more facilities were able to open up and certificate of need laws often make it so if you want to open a new healthcare thing, you have to get approval from existing healthcare things to make sure that you can do it, whether it's an MRI clinic or something like that. It applies to non healthcare stuff, too. But it's a big thing here. But it's just not smart to lay off all those people who have those skills and who have that expertise. And to have their skills go to waste, it's really, really dangerous. And like, we need, you know, we're always in a health care shortage, but during the pandemic, it got so much worse. And it floors me that they wouldn't realize that very real concern, laying off new staff, you know, laying off staff now.

Brian  
Yeah, well, you talked about the certificate of need laws, and let's, you know, bring this to something that everybody gets to enjoy, telecommunications, right? That's my day job. But think specifically, your cable provider. If I'm in the northeast, could be Comcast, it could be which was formerly Tom, Time Warner now spectrum, you have Verizon files, just imagine if anytime a new provider wants to just exist in an area that they had to get the approval of Comcast, Verizon, and spec. That doesn't make sense. And it doesn't make sense from a healthcare perspective either. And I'm seeing right now, a lot of people Shauna, they're looking at the system. And they're saying, number one, what, this is a thing. And number two, how do we fix it? So Shauna, I know that's a lot, right? Your magic wand fix the healthcare system, but let's say you had to give people a couple of actionable steps that they can start to take what would that look like?

Unknown Speaker  
So um, I don't do anything in health insurance. So health insurance is totally out of my area. But with uh, with just healthcare regulations, I mean, end all certificate of need laws there, it's abbreviated to con laws a lot. And it's, it is a con, it's crap. It's, whether it's moving companies, or MRI clinics, you know, company shouldn't have to get approval from one another. There's bigger issues and systems, we can talk through that. But like, in the 70s, I think it was we decided, oh, let's do con laws. And it's been a disaster ever since it for every state that implemented it. So we should stop doing that. Um, furthermore, just expanding scope of practice as much as possible for nurses, pharmacists, let all of them, you know, give vaccines, let pharmacists prescribe more stuff over the counter, if it's safe for them to whether it's birth control, or whether it's tobacco cessation products, just make sure that they can provide as much health care as they can, because during the worst of times, it takes extreme strain off of regular providers. And during the best of times, it's just easier access for normal people. Stop letting doctors control nurses, it's a really bad model. You know, doctors, in too many cases prevent nurses from giving some primary care service, which they're able to do, which they're trained to do. And in many states, they do do and it lowers costs, improves health outcomes. So it works to do a lot more of that. And there's just so many little and baked regulations that get rid of whether it's, you know, that we can't work across state lines, this is kind of like a weird thing where we actually need to add regulations, in effect to get rid of them, you know, say Hey, no matter what state you work in, you can come here and work, you can transfer your license really easily. Let's have a foreign doctors work here, if they're already here. And in so many cases they are and they can't practice what they know, let them transfer into the system at the very least, or if their credentials are the same, why not let that transfer we don't have any real mechanism for that outside of a very small handful of countries. But if people have training we shouldn't make them go through 1012 years again, just to do the thing they were already doing and in too many cases, it's not worth it. So we need to stop The brain drain. All of this is just very simple stuff that helps everyone, there's no danger because it's either like expanding our regulatory system, or having ways for stuff to transfer into it, there's no reason that it shouldn't work that way. And if we got rid of all these problems, you know, during pandemics or during, you know, various natural disasters, people could go from one place to another and work there without having to worry about government coming after them. And of course, get rid of licenses that aren't needed, but I'm fine with doctor and nurse licenses, though, I do think there's ways to shorten the process a little bit, because it takes quite a long time to become a doctor. And there's a lot of other barriers and becoming a doctor, that, that that we could definitely get rid of.

Brian  
Yeah, well, you go back to talking about the licenses, I just read, read, okay, I read, I saw a meme. The meme was referring to this one pilot who just got fired, not with regards to what's going on with the COVID stuff. But he got caught not having a pilot's license. And he'd been flying for 30 years. And somebody had responded to like that original post. And they said, You think at that point, they just let them keep flying. Right. And and that's the that's the the common sense, like, Yeah, that makes sense answer. And yet, based on the way that the regulations are in the licensor licensure laws, it actually doesn't make sense. And we're seeing this right now, really rear its ugly head, Shauna, in terms of other jobs that are out there with occupational licensing, and all of a sudden being hit with this completely out of left field thing called the covid 19 pandemic. So I would love to hear kind of what have been the stories you've been hearing in regards to the impact on those people outside of your traditional health care situation where obviously occupational licensing plays a huge role. But let's think about some of the lesser talked about occupational licenses jobs out there, and what was their direct impact in regards to COVID.

Unknown Speaker  
So it's interesting because during this is kind of an aside, but during, you know, national or state emergencies, where it's like one area hit by like natural disaster, think of stuff like that, a lot of times, they'll temporarily waive contractors or other related professionals, whether it's plumbers or something like that, to be able to come in and do work without having to have problems. We definitely need more of those on the books, but on the books, not as executive orders. There's a lot of licensing reform that was temporary and graded, and some of it became permanent. But so many of the legislators were like, okay, we're gonna go do other stuff now. And I'm like, ooh, you might want to, like, make this permanent. So there's regulatory certainty, because if a nurse doesn't know that they can, you know, comfortably work in another place and not have to deal with crushing liability for trying to help people out. That's a really big deal. And then even with cosmetologist, so it was really interesting, because, you know, during the early pandemic, especially a lot of salons were shut down. And I actually didn't oppose it. Knowing what I knew at the time. Now I'm looking back not so sure. But um, the concern of disease spreading there was not new to me, because cosmetologist often argue that if someone isn't licensed, they'll spread disease, you know, whether it's hair braiders, or stuff like that. And the fact is that licensed salons are the ones spreading diseases, the rates are out of this world, it's just really, really high rates of infection spread. So I'm like, you know what, they didn't clean up their act, we don't have a regulatory system that actually protects people in salons. Instead, we add on lots and lots of burdens that makes us feel like we're protecting people, but it's not. So I'm fine with maybe switching out some licensing for health inspections, you know, make sure stuff is clean, and that, that everything's being treated, right, because you know, most infections will go away, and it's fine. But still, you don't want to have places like that. And again, even during the worst of times, when we have this overly burdensome system, it didn't even benefit the cosmetologist because they had to be shut down to. At the same time, there were officials who would still go to salons during while everything was shut down. And that was obviously ridiculous. There's plenty of that. But the way it all works is very strange. So too many of our regulations don't protect, they just make us feel like they're, you know, they're protecting, and I don't mind regulations that actually protect people, but like, when they don't, it's okay, like, Let's switch it out for something that does the thing you want it to do, or let's get rid of it all if it's not working, because that doesn't make any sense. But it was very strange to see how many professions just had all these different kinds of waivers. Most of them were at least a little healthcare related. But um, but now some of its gone into mental health and like, um, their telehealth in Arizona and Florida have like really, really expanded over the past couple of years. And I think states in general have just understood that these crushing burdens don't serve us well when our country is struggling and our country will struggle at various times for things in and out of our control. But when you have all these barriers in the way that make it just impossible for people to get back on their feet, that's why I've started to think even cosmetologist which are kind of known to not like any form of DEA regulations that support some of it which has just been awesome. I love seeing it but it's a it's it's shocking to me, you know, as someone who worked on this issue for so long, but there's still a lot that hasn't been touched. There's, um, you know, a lot of the legacy licenses the Louisiana Florida license is still there, it drives me nuts. There's all kinds of unnecessary licenses all over, but there is some more interest in understanding in and making it better before that. And there was some understanding starting in the past couple of years before the pandemic that like, Look, licensing reform can be really important for everyone across the aisle, everyone from Trump, to Obama to Tom Cotton, to uh, you know, Jeanne Shaheen all kind of understood that, but um, really, during the pandemic, I think people started to really internalize the real effects that can have the lack of good It does, and maybe we should rethink how we're doing. So it's been encouraging, but I wish it didn't have to come about.

Brian  
I mean, don't we all. And I think what you you said, really just encapsulates everything from, from the regulations to the licensures, to the, what we've just seen for the past almost two years now. And it's, it's policy being done in the name of making you feel like you're gonna be safe. And yet, this is the funny part. I mean, it's not funny, but if you don't laugh, you'll cry, you end up finding out that actually, actually, you're not as safe. Not only are you not as safe, you're less safe. In many cases, you mentioned there the specific example with the beauty salon. That's amazing, because it goes into just so much not only in terms of how we act when we vote, looking for that sense of security, but I mean, since we had you on the show last time, Shauna, we've really changed the show took more of a sales and marketing approach to Liberty, and in politics. And one of the things we talked about in sales, is the idea that emotion sells. And the number one, the number one emotion that will always sell above everything else is fear. And with that, how you can apply fear to a sense of security and safety. And it's just, it's sales. I mean, and that's what drives me crazy is because now, you've only got one option, your option is the top down option. And if you have this, essentially monopoly on fear, all the sudden, everything can become terrifying. Everyone becomes a threat. And it opens up the door for how much we've seen already take place in terms of the excessive regulation, the excessive licensures. It's, it's happening in the past, it's happening now. Can we stop it from happening in the future? Shauna?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, I think we just need to keep on the messaging side. You know, I'm a giant nerd, but I've learned how to be less than or just, you know, just talk to people about real issues, because I care about the principles, but I also care about the people heartened by stuff. It's and I think we need to remind people about that because the principles matter, but so do the real life effects. Even the real life effects don't always like Warren's higher regulation, but it's often because the regulation won't solve the problems so people lobby for regulations, even good people lobby for regulations that don't solve things and then the things keeps going on and then we keep getting more regulations because this time it'll be solved and just kind of remind people like hey, here's You know, when something bad is being proposed, I'll remind people here's a similar regulatory dynamic or Okay, you want to stop this this doesn't do that this doesn't solve that problem. And just making sure we understand that with people that there are problems I don't think government can solve that it tries to but um, but even again, I like to use cosmetology as an example because it's something everyone kind of understands everyone gets haircuts. I tried to learn how to cut my own hair it did not work I mean I wasn't bad but I was just

Brian  
surprisingly I had a lot easier of a time with it

Unknown Speaker  
you did I did what about your long flowing locks you

Brian  
had a job that was at least 11 years ago

Unknown Speaker  
My life is so hard I tried my hair is always such a Jew fro it's always just such a challenge to get it right so I cut the bangs once during the past couple of months ago but I realized there's no way I'm going to be able to get the ends right so most of us unless you're really really good at cutting stuff that you can't see in the back of your head are gonna you know go to salons and I think that when you understand of course you know you want to make sure it's safe and start and grow stuff can happen but that like the regulations aren't solving that then we need to rethink Okay, is there nothing we can do when in this case? I really think it should be treated like any food establishment Hey just come around don't like don't put in insane regulations that like oh the paper towels have to be this high above this thing you know, all those kind of dumb ones. But focus on real like, Hey, is this sanitize? Or do they have regular sanitation processes? Do they keep sanitation stuff around? You know, are they are they handling everything that they need to with gloves with gloves, you know, little things like that, that I think can be done very rationally. And even though I think like a lot of the food regulations sometimes go a little bit overboard. It's a lot better than it not working and then all these extra regulations that you have to wait years and years to become a cosmetologist. Like that's not helpful, I want everyone to have the opportunity. But it's not solving the problem. And I'm sick of regulations that don't. And I think more people are getting it. I'm on the left and the right. It's really encouraging. But I'm there, there's a lot opportunity to make stuff change because people are getting it.

Brian  
Yeah, well, and he just went towards the right part of the conversation in my head was going towards that as well. And that is looking at building these solutions. I mean, obviously, the libertarians in the audience, they're saying, Well, why don't we just, you know, go ahead and have independent organizations start to do the licensure themselves, but it's outside of government. We hear you we trust us, we hear you. But we have to acknowledge the elephant in the room first. And that is, a lot of these licenses and regulations already exist from that state level. Now, Shoshana you mentioned a few states. You mentioned I think it was Florida. You mentioned Arizona, doing pretty well here throughout the pandemic. But beyond that, are there other states, you can look to just from either a helping reduce a lot of the burden and in terms of licensure, but also number two, maybe in terms of starting to actually pull back in terms of not only the licensing, but also regulations? Do you see any estates beyond Florida and Arizona leading the charge? Or is it mostly focus in those two states?

Unknown Speaker  
So always look to Arizona because I adore Governor Ducey, we disagree sometimes, but he's not only a wonderful person, but a really, really good, regular, he has a great regulatory brain, he gets the stuff he knows all the stuff I'm telling you he would agree with. He comes from that perspective and he works for the legislature and they have some great legislators there too to get this stuff done. So if you're looking for an example Arizona has done almost everything you can do minus chip away at those like licenses we still don't need and that's a harder thing to do. Because that's when lobbies get involved and it's a whole thing but if you want to look for examples, look there, but there is always more. Spencer Cox in Utah, the governor they are super into this. So he's been doing more here. The governor of Colorado, if a new down license comes up, he's like, no, we're not doing this and they'll veto it. I appreciate that. Florida has done a lot they have more to do but they're doing very well. They've also added some really dumb regulations which I don't love. Um, and then you'll see movement all over the country are Pennsylvania, the Democratic governor there, polis is also Democrat, but it's like to see both parties doing it. The but yeah, the Pennsylvania democratic governor Tom Wolf, keep signing, you know, licensing reform, and he'll make a big deal out of it showing like he understands why this is important. New Hampshire's governor as well. There's interest all over and it's so encouraging. Most states are doing something which is nuts, but there's lots of states that are in the the South East is kind of one area that's kind of hard to do stuff with, like, I'm not exactly sure why. There's just certain political dynamics there. And also in very blue states where you tend to see that as well. I just don't think one party rule tends to serve people. Well, that said, California recently got rid of 600 extra hours to become a cosmetologist. So now they're down to 1000, which is actually one of the lower states now. So it's cool to see even California doing that stuff. It's not to say any of the states I'm mentioning aren't also doing awful stuff. But they're they're starting to get it a little bit more, I think people are starting to realize, okay, if I want my seat to succeed, I can't just constantly throw barrels, and the people coming towards me who wants to do the good work? So um, there's stuff all over. But there's, it's, there's still a lot to do. And most states unless you're Arizona,

Brian  
I'm gonna say this, and I don't know what your thoughts are. But I would say also, I mean, you mentioned a state like California now. I'm a sales guy. And I have to reverse engineer and think well, what, you know, beyond are they actually, you know, feeling good about doing this, or is there something else that they're feeling an undiscovered pain? I think I found it. They're missing out on revenue. Because what's happening? Shawna, if you're a beautician, if you're, you know, a barber, and you're going on, you're like, EFF this, I'm not getting a license, I know, I can cut hair, and I'm really good. We're just gonna do a no table. And guess what, I'm paying zero taxes. And you multiply that across the board with how many people were just saying, the barriers are too big, the service still needs to get done. I'll figure out a way. And with the advent of new technologies, it makes it a lot easier for people to be able to do that. So is it wrong of me to maybe speculate that some of these maybe more money driven states and let's be real, it's all the states when they're trying to get their revenue? Is there maybe a little bit of a double incentive, you're not just the feel good, but also the dollars and cents,

Unknown Speaker  
so dollars and cents, but not in that way, you're not wrong, but I haven't seen data showing that that's a really big piece of it. I think it's more that like, people aren't moving up the ladder and therefore they're not paying more taxes. So it is kind of that way, but it's a little bit different. And consider this as well that there's many stories of people who are doing things without a license and they get caught and sting operations like not Not stuff. So I don't I think that they usually tend to catch people like that it's stupid. And it's not that it's not to use of government resources. But a good example is this one on military spouse who moved from California where you don't need a license to give nutritional advice to Florida where you do, they finally got rid of it, like this year or last year, and I was very thankful for that. But um, you know, she was a CrossFit trainer and also gave, you know, like, eat Cali flow and stuff like that. And they did sting operations, the state did sting operations to say, you know, to catch her doing it, and, and really, really went after her. So her doing this in a smaller capacity still, like, it was nuts how it went, but they tend to catch those people. So I'd be surprised if a lot of that went out. Um, you know, goes under the radar, I'm sure it does to an extent, but I don't think it's as big because it is kind of difficult. Even I'm not the famous Louisiana florist case, I'm in Super brief and elderly widow had never had to work before. So she knew floristry. So she tried to get the florist license at the time, the pass rate to be a florist to get that license was lower than the pass rate to be barred. In Louisiana, it was nuts. And obviously, it's not because flower flowers are super much harder and more dangerous than law. But um, she eventually went working technically illegally in that way for a grocery state authorities found that out that she was and they told the grocery either you fire this elderly widow or we're closing you down. So I don't blame the grocery, there's nothing they could have done that had a better outcome for her. But when she ended up dying, she was in poverty at the time because of government and like, they catch people they like it's awful on it's stupid, but they tend to catch people. Again, I'm sure there are under the table operations. And I know that that's not super infrequent. But I think that a bigger chunk of it, really is that they're like, Hey, we want dues paying members rather than like, worrying about the under the table stuff.

Brian  
Well, you know what that means, though, that, to be honest, are telling more of these stories? Because I mean, I know for a fact that we have filmmakers who listen to this show. So take stories like that guys, and turn it into something that your average person can take away and say, That's messed up. I mean, Shoshana Are you watching a squid games right now?

Unknown Speaker  
No, oh my gosh, my dad was just telling me about it. I had not heard about it before he mentioned that I'm not a good youth. I still watched like South Park and older her and Simpsons older cartoons, but like the early days of them should should I be watching what games

Brian  
it's an experience. Um, I think it's also just so you can stay up to date in the contemporary conversations, but also to the fact that I mean, just looking at the people who I know are watching squid games, that I'm hearing the conversations that they're having, and they're very emotional conversations because, I mean, not getting a spoiler alert here for the show. But the entire premise is that I think it's 456 people go to play a game and long story short, they're either indebted to you know, creditors, they're indebted to governments, you know individuals and this is a chance for them to win back their money in a quote unquote fair equal playing field. But when you are eliminated from the certain games that you're playing, you're actually eliminated you get shot killed something along those lines. And it's going through this this game that they've been playing, I think it's six games or so. And people who are watching the show, I'm hearing the conversations that they're having and the intensity that they have about these conversations, and it hits me I'm like, this is a fake story. Just imagine if we could make something that they could consume that tells the real stories and not the Hollywood you know, the the dramatization you're based on based on a true story, not like actually a story like tell the actual story that happened, because that alone, it being real and authentic and happened to a sad old lady and old widow. Come on like that. That means something to people so Oh, yeah. Wow, sorry sheesh, I'm gonna go on a rant there.

Unknown Speaker  
Well, I mean, that's that's the reason why I got involved in licensing reform. I'd always been passionate about unenumerated rights because like, the ninth Amendment says, We have them and so does the 14th privileges or immunities clause that like, the shortlist? isn't our rights, like these are rights, this is just a little bit of them. But when I heard about her story, when I was like, gosh, I think I was 28 or 21. At the time, I just like I'm like, Okay, well, this is what I'm doing for the rest of my life. So

Brian  
like, you know what, there's, there's a million more shadows out there who they'll hear that story and they'll get activated too. And, and I know we have to wrap up here because you're you're hard pressed for time, and I'll turn the conversation towards this as we wrap up. This is exciting, because the conversation has started. People are already seeing what's happening not only in the past two years when COVID hit, but if you were to go ask somebody in your circle, say hey, do you know someone who is you know, a beautician is a barber is healthcare worker is name licensed job here. Everybody's gonna raise their hand, they're gonna say, Yeah, I know somebody, and you can talk to that person and have a difference in the ability to change their mind by making it real. And it's telling these stories, having these conversations, but also helping people see that there are actually things they can do. And that's the biggest thing that we've missed is people just will be like, wow, this really sucks. Now what? And Shauna, you're giving them a now what? So let's do this. As we wrap up the conversation, I want to give you a platform to make sure that people see the call to action. So obviously, you're doing a lot of great work. You're not only talking to amazing people who are making differences happen, but also you're reading about it over at r Street. So with that being said, Shauna number one, what can people do? Number two, where can people go ahead and follow you if they want continue the conversation?

Unknown Speaker  
Thank you. Yeah, so the top thing is praise people doing good things. I may hate like governor Newsome a good chunk of the time. But when he does something good, I'll praise Him. But sometimes I yell at him too, but usually praising I find more effective. So it depends on the situation. But really praise the people doing good things, even if you don't like them, but when they're doing the things. And then also kind of know who you're voting for just, you know, keep an eye out and stuff. And thankfully, most people kind of get licensing reform. And I doubt you're a single issue licensing reform voter, but really just trying to learn about the candidate, learn about the people that they want to be like, no one's ever right 100% of the time, but it's good to have an eye on that stuff. And then, you know, when you have opportunity to get involved, just like, know to be activity and like, protests for licensing reform are really more more often it's just going to be sharing with friends and family like, Hey, this is the thing that matters. And this is the thing we should want more of, because elected officials, regulators, they all respond to public what the public wants. I don't think it's always the best that they do. Because I think sometimes there should be principles that that go beyond populism, but knowing that they do, it's an effective way. And then I'm really just being informed. And then yeah, so you can follow me at Senator shaunna. On Twitter, and my job at RSI on Twitter, we do lots of work far beyond this. Most of what you'll see isn't that but but we do a lot of really fun work. And I'm really thankful to be there.

Brian  
Shawn, I know there's a great saying from the one and only sales guru expert. I don't know what you call them coach Jeffrey Gitomer, and he says love what you do, or don't fucking do it. And Shoshana, it's obvious. You love what you do. And when other people can show that they love what they do. It will inspire other people to say, Why Why Does she love what she does? And it gives you the opportunity to tell people because I'm making a difference. And I'm seeing that difference. And Shawn, I think that is one of the best things that we can actually take away from this episode is that there are things people can do. And yes, praise good people when they do good things. And with that being said, folks, if you want to go ahead and make sure that we're raising up good people who are doing good things, please be sure to go ahead and give today's episode of sharing when you do give Shana a tag I will include all of the links here in the show notes. Click the artwork, it'll bring you right to The Brian Nichols Show page here for today's episode along with the entire transcription for today's episode, plus all 370 other episodes over on The Brian Nichols Show. With that being said Shoshana Weissman, thanks for joining the program.

Unknown Speaker  
Thank you so much for having me.

Brian  
Alrighty, folks, that's gonna wrap up our conversation with Shoshana Weissman, Shoshana thank you for joining the program. And folks if you enjoyed today's episode, please do me a favor and make sure you go ahead and give it a share. And when you do go ahead and give Shoshana a tag and also folks a quick shout out to our man Jeremy Todd he had the first ever episode of sell and liberty a brand new podcast YouTube show here on The Brian Nichols Show and it is hosted by yes our good friend Jeremy Todd sales extraordinary he had his first episode there on the via the YouTube which actually actually aired I lied it aired on Facebook Live that's where it first aired but it will be airing over on YouTube as well. So we do have the video version and that aired last night at 9pm Eastern 8pm Central for those of you not here on the East Coast, but it will also be airing weekly here on The Brian Nichols Show so a little housekeeping yes some things have moved around I know you heard we had a you know a little bit changed with our Saturday solo episode for past guests so he had earlier in the week Reason being going forward we're going to be having sell Liberty Saturdays. That's right Jeremy Todd, we're going to have the podcast version of the video version from Facebook and YouTube airing here on the program on those Saturdays. So shout out to Jeremy and yes if you are a fan of The Brian Nichols Show on a YouTube make sure you also go ahead to our channels and our favorite channels. And go ahead and subscribe to sell Liberty with Jeremy Todd as well. So with that being said Coming up tomorrow Yes, the first ever episode of cell Liberty shout out to Jeremy Todd, he had a great conversation with the one and only former VP nominee for the LP spike Cohen. Thank you for joining us here on our first ever inaugural episode of cell liberty. And thank you to everybody who joined us over on Facebook. And yes, we're so excited to have this brand new venture here joining us on The Brian Nichols Show. So with that being said, it's Brian Nichols signing off on The Brian Nichols Show for Shauna Weissman. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Brian Nichols Show. Fun more episodes at The Brian Nichols show.com. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe. Want to help us reach more people? Give the show a five star review and tell your friends to subscribe to find us at Brian Nichols show.com and download the show on Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow me on social media at V. Nichols liberty and consider donating to the show at Brian Nichols show.com forward slash support. The Brian Nichols Show is supported by viewers like you. Thank you to our patrons Darryl Schmitz, Laura Stanley, Mike olema, Michel Mankiewicz, Cody John's, Craig Acosta and the we're libertarians network. Trust the experts we're all in this together it saves one life Raise your hand if you've heard any of those tiresome phrases over the past year and a half. I know my hand is currently raised millions of people across dozens of industries were labeled on essential and forced the lockdown with livelihoods and futures crushed in an instant and as government has continued to expand its power and leverage fear to turn neighbor against neighbor a group of filmmakers have taken a stand and are determined to help set the record straight on the importance of following the actual science of the pandemic follow the science on lockdowns and liberty from the sound mind create a group is a brand new docu series highlighting the stories of those negatively impacted over the past year and a half by ineffective government policies enacted in the name of following the science with noted experts like Nick Hudson from Panda, the pandemic data analytics organization health care policy advisors like Scott Atlas, and telling stories of business owners families and just your average everyday person harmed by these government mandates follow the science on lockdowns and liberty is giving us a chance to make sure the true stories of the pandemic are cool so please help us at the Brian show in supporting the sound mind creative group with noted figures in the Liberty movement like Dr. Tom Woods donating 1000s of their own dollars to this project. You know just how important this project is. So head The Brian Nichols show.com forward slash follow the science to donate and catch their brand new trailer to the docu series one more time. That's Brian Nichols Show calm for slash follow the science

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